Bike loses all power
 

Had something weird happen to me today. I went for a ride and bike was running just perfect. I get home and stop to check my mail. I take the key out to check the mail and then when I put it back in and turn it on I get the red light low oil indicator (which it always does on start), green neutral and head light. I hit the start and the bike goes completely dead.

I ended up pushing bike to the my 3rd floor parking garage and the lights would comeon every now and then. But when I hit start it'd die again. I didn't get a chance to roll start it when the lights came back on.

Anyone have any clue what is going on?

Ignition key short would guess.

shes about 15, thats when they really start disobeying, talking back, ignoring you, etc.


lol-sounds electrical
battery
fuses
kickstand switch
clutch switch
random short somewhere(ignition like mentioned, or the start button or run switch, etc)


not familiar with your bike or possible mods youve done(lighting?), but thats what id check first, in the order of easiest to hardest to get to/check.

Well I prayed to the Honda gods that it wouldn't come down to them butt raping me (aka order Honda OEM) and sacrificed a virgin (was going to use Digifox but apparently he isn't anymore). I took the oldest one I could find (at 10) and fed it to the Kraken.

In doing so the bike started up no problem. I did everything I could to replicate the problem but it kept fucking working. Glad it's working but upset that I may not be able to identify what went wrong. Well I'm sure I'll have my chance in the middle of fucking nowhere.

I just thought of this which is probably a bad thing to remember later but I think low oil will cut a motor off (I know it will on Honda small engines). However would it by chance shut down all electronics? I'm just taking wild guesses now

I have two electronic mods. One is the heat grips that I have set up with the fuse box but the fuses where fine. The other is a green neon that I set up for the tag (a lot of good that did since I got a tag obstruction in daytime from Ranger Rick) but that hasn't affected anything before.

Appreciate the info. Now going to find someone who knows how to use an ohmmeter and make them start touching shit.

First thing I'd do is load test the battery; a failing battery can drive you batshit crazy...sometimes they'll just slowly fade away and sometimes they'll do intermittent shut downs due to temp, ect. Next on my hit parade would be charging system...if the battery's not getting charged it'll act dead after a short shutdown, but then slowly gain a bit of charge after it's been sitting and cooling off....that's where I would look first.

Battery sounds like the biggest culprit, take the body off and start looking at wires around the ignition too. Is the key loose in it? Are the contacts in good condition?

OTB you might just be right. I noticed the other night while driving home in the country (no city lights) my lights kind of flickered some. I kind of blew it off but I recognized it from either a bad battery or bad Rectifier/Regulator. I replaced a bad R/R a year ago with a used GSXR750/600 RR that a lot of other F3 owners have done.

How do you do a "load test"? Is that something Batteries Plus can take care of or Autozone?

Yep.........

Yes, Batteries Plus and Autozone can do a load test. Alternatively, you could pull your panties up, and act like a man. Sorry Smittie, you know I love you.

Put your meter on the battery terms. Check the reading. Crank the bike over, and watch the meter. If it drops more than 3 volts, your shit's fucked up.

JC

This...

Check the charging system. Chances are that it is either your regulator or alternator...from what I read in the OP it sounds like the alternator. Usually if its the regulator the battery will be stone dead and nothing will come on. What you said it sounds like it might be the alternator. Good luck.

Well I took it to Batteries plus and the battery turned out perfect. 100% charge and 100% something else. He said my CCA is suppose to be 120 but performing at 180.

Now it did start up in the morning just fine and when I left batteries plus (and a fedex kinkos shortly before). But I drove about 10+ miles (in some traffic) to run to school and when I left there after being there for 10minutes it did it again. I got the light to come back on and I push started it off. I got back to my apartment and after I turned it off I tried to turn it on and it did it again. When I hit the ignition after it dies the neutral light comes on very faint while I have the ignition depressed.

Here is my original R/R compared to my new one...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/...9fc92f946c.jpg

and here it is wired up.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2170/...a3d6dcda_z.jpg

I'm going to find someone who knows how to use a ohmmeter because I have no clue how those bastards work. What should they check for when checking the R/R?

Appreciate the help guys

Easiest way to check out put is to check the output voltage to the battery while the bike is running....above 2500 rpm you should see somewhere between 13.5-14.2 vdc. If you are getting less than that you have a stator or RR issue.

Then you can check continuity of the stator or signal side of RR.

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/...P-PMG-&-RR.pdf

Make sure to check the stator output when it's hot.

Looks like the new rectum-frier was spliced/soldered rather than using plug connectors - but if plugs, check them for corrosion. Also - get that thing mounted properly so the sub-frame acts as a heat-sink (pref. w/ some dielectric grease on the back for thermal transfer). Even though it's bigger with fins, there's not much airflow there & will run much hotter if the heat has nowhere to 'drain' effectively.

Is it just me, or does the red wire in the pic look like the insulation has gotten hot & discolored?

Use a decent meter & run through the troubleshooting chart - also be aware that when either the stator or regulator goes bad, often the other will follow soon even if it tests fine. At that age, I'd consider replacing both if either tests bad & you have the budget.

We got looking through it and turns out hte problem is most likely the starter relay.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/...cf1a2162_z.jpg

On the right where you see th red plug is the starter relay. We woudln't have power on the cable going out to the starter even when we hit the ignition. We took it apart and checked everything we could. We put it back together and it works again without a problem so we're pretty sure it's the starter relay.

I have the fairings off the bike now so if it happens again I'm going to fuck with the relay to see if it starts back up. I'm also going to double check the battery ground when I can find it.

You know, I didn't even read your first post closely before replying about the charging system....

The immediate dead (not just turning over slowly) & occasionally coming back on definitely sounds like a flaky connection. Clean/scrape battery terminals & clean the frame ground (somewhere around where the main frame spars & subframe join). Also check the terminals/wires of the main fuse holder located on the starter relay holder. Good luck!

You beat me to it. Just make sure the relay is getting signal power when you thumb the starter button. Sometimes the contacts in the starter button itself can cause the problem. But I think you said your green neutral light dims when you push the starter button and the bike doesnt start. My money is on the relay for now.

Yeah, and to replace it is $95. Gonna check the ground and pray to the Honda gods that they spare me and allow me to tighten a bolt.

On my old CBR, all the electric problems are with ground corrosion. And I have a steel frame. Aluminum frames are just as bad or worse. I ground my ground wire from the R/R (green/black wire on my bike) directly to the negative terminal of the battery. Mine also has a wire (red/white) from the R/R to the starter relay, so if the R/R doesn't have a good ground, it may not crank.

Update. I finally got a new Starter Relay after I was sent the wrong starter relay.

Well I got it put in and nothing again. I was pissed. I finally took the positive terminal and placed it to the starter cable and it didn't budge it. I went to batteries plus and they ran the batter and said it was doing 9Vs (though it was doing 12 when I originally had the problem). Took it back and it started off!!!

The Flying Turd is back!!!

So was the relay bad or not?

I don't know. All signs from before point to yes. When I tested the battery last time it had 12Vs and a great battery load test. I'm going to put the old one in later to see if it is for sure the problem.

Regardless the bike is running! I'm going to hit the twisties on Sunday!

Sweeeet. Just curious but the end result is the important part!

I'm guessing the battery just died after sitting for a while (Especially after a load test) and the relay was bad.

Hey, even motorcycle techs aren't comfortable with electrical problems. And they can replace an electrical part with a new one. If it still doesn't work they can put it back on the shelf. If we buy an electrical part, it can't be returned.

But there are only three categories of wiring problems: Opens, shorts, and grounds. Basically, an open is when something doesn't work. Such as a broken wire, loose or corroded connector, or a faulty switch. As I read it, you still don't know if your new battery is being charged by the R/R.

So if you have a digital voltmeter, all you need to know is the volts and resistance sections. With the correct wires of the voltmeter hooked to the battery terminals, read the volts (20 scale). Should read above 12.5. Start the engine and rev above 5K. Should read above 13.5. If it doesn't, you have a short.

The resistance section of the voltmeter will tell you if you have continuity between wires and connectors, between the R/R and battery, between the R/R and ground, and between the stator and R/R. It will also tell you if the R/R, and the stator are working correctly. Refer to your manual for the correct testing procedure.

By the way, did you charge up the new battery for 24 hours or so? The bike's stator doesn't have enough juice to do this.