Advice on the course?
 

So, now that I can afford this stuff, I want to make sure I get the best education for my money.

I know that the courses take place in various parking lots. Schools, casinos, etc. What I don't know is what the difference is. Are these all the same people where I will learn the same stuff, or will one be better than the other?

Anyone in the South Florida area: can you tell me where the best place would be to go? I'm willing to drive, within reason, for the best possible course. In all reality, if the best one, hands down, is in Tampa- I've got friends that live there so I'm there.

Anyone else: tips? advice on what to look for, how to prepare, etc?

I'm an overachiever. And a teacher's pet. And a perfectionist. Help me out here! :dthumb:

To clarify, I mean the MSF course. :D

The MSF course?

Si, senor

really all MSF courses should be teaching the same material. the only diffrence SHOULD be the quality of the instruction.

take what they teach you and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE by yourself. in a big ass parking lot... well once you get your bike

also remember that they'll want you to have boots, jeans, long sleaves... preferbly a riding jacket, and full fingered gloves. A helmet is also required but most courses I've seen can provide that.


I'd say get your gear and ride in that... that way your learning in the gear you'll be wearing anyways... :dthumb:

some states offer a riding school where they provide the bike and helmet for a reasonable fee. They train you in the basics,just like driver's ed except with bikes. It's been a long time but as I remember it the msf course doesn't deal in basic operation that much. Plus they definitely didn't provide bikes to ride or gear,again as I remember it. I don't know what your skill level is but if you need basic operation training you should go with a state run program first or get help from friends that already ride(like OSP!) before taking the MSF course.

I disagree... friends will most likely teach you their bad habits, it'd probably be better to just learn from MSF instructors from the bery beginning... That being said, I know Neonspeed is an MSF instructor, but he's all the way in Jax... Perhaps he can point you to the right people down south...

Oh yeah... and you fucking attention whore... how dare you want to better yourself and gain actual motorcycle knowledge. I can't fucking stand curb squirrels with genuine interest in motorcycle riding... Stupid bitch...

Sorry... couldn't resist.

:werd: All great advice. :dthumb:

In Florida, the state has no such school. It's all private schools, and they're not subsidized by the state (I know some states up north, the course if free, or dirt cheap, because the state funds it... no such luck here).

Additionally, as of July 1, 2008, state DMV offices will no longer be offering the testing to get your endorsement AND it's going to be a requirement to have your "M" endorsement in order to register a motorcycle... in short, this means EVERYONE will have to take the MSF class. So you may want to try to take the class as soon as possible before all the schools start to get flooded (also, you want to take it before the heat of Summer - heat exhaustion is no fun!)


In addition to the long sleeves, long pants, etc... start hydrating the day before (or two days before if it's hot) your class, and take a small cooler or insulated bag with bottled water, gatorade and some snacks with you (the school will probably provide water, but take some just in case... dehydration and hunger will affect your concentration)

As for schools in your area... go to http://www.msf-usa.org to find a class in your area.

And I'd recommend against having a friend or loved one coaching you before taking the class. MSF instructors actually prefer you coming in with NO skills than with some skills learned from a friend - that way they don't have to untrain any bad habits. :D

That's AWESOME! I think that's a step in the right direction... I dunno about FL, but the licensing test in OH was a fucking joke. I could have done it blindfolded with 20 beers in me...

:werd:

We've got a few coaches on board... Neon, Beefcake, Sterling and PhiSig are all MSF rider coaches. :D

And they're all in Jax... Is this some sort of world domination plan in action? I want in... I promise not to vomit on anything... anything super important that is...

:dvrofl: There's more... DV8OR, Saki Girl, Al-caholic (Mr Saki Girl), 2K4Gixxer, Sportinsflyin... um... who am I forgetting. They're ALL Rider Coaches (and all but PhiSig work for the same school).

Everyone has offered excellent advice and the appropriate ways to go about getting into riding.

On the gear, remember to get something that is fully functional. Right now on the market there is alot of ladies gear that looks like real MC gear but is in reality just for looks. You want to make sure you have CE rated armor in your jacket (back, shoulders, arms). Make sure your helmet is Snell and/or DOT approved. As for pants, well, there are several types you can go with, but for the MSF, jeans are sufficient. A good sturdy pair of over the ankle boots are a must, try not to get anything with too boxy a toe as it may not fit under the peg. A pair of gloves can be picked up at any bike dealer from $35 and up.

I think that covers it, they are finally getting good stuff out for us girls, just ask if you have any questions about what you are looking at.

Hmmm....so MSF does do basic operation drills and such? Cool,I took it when I was 18 in like 1983-84. The army mandated it before you could ride on post. Anyway,it sounds like FLA has put all it's eggs in the MSF basket. BTW I realize that you can pick up bad habits from friends but it's better than getting a bike and trying to learn on your own. Besides not all guys who ride are jerkwads. I've always got the impression the OSP was a conscientious rider and believe it or not I'm an excellent new rider coach myself. BTW MM when you're looking for gear,depending on your size,I have some Icon stuff that might fit you I'd sell cheap. Ex gf stuff/barely used!

Well said baby. Everything Nee said is great advice. Get in before the summer and before the crowds. Up here in Jax, we're already filling up about three weeks in advance now. Closer to july it's going to get even more crowded.

Plus I highly, highly reccomend taking the class before the heat of the summer.

As far as the class itself, the program is the same no matter where you go. Go check out MSF's website. Also check with the better business beauru. See if any schools in your area are registered with them. If they are, then they can give you some good feedback as to good schools in your area. Also ask any local riders in your area. Word of mouth is usually the best indication of a good school.

Here are the best tips I can give you for when you take the MSF class.
_______________________________________________

First and foremost, something to remember. The MSF class is designed for students who have NEVER been on a motorcycle and who have never even driven a manual transmission car.

You say you are a perfectionist. Get that attitude out of your head for the MSF class. Nobody, and I mean nobody comes out to the class and is perfect. Thats not what the class is designed for. If you have that attitude, you will make mistakes and start beating yourself up. It's ok, mistakes are allowed. The class is about building a foundation to learn on and teaching you the basics of motorcycling. In the two years i've been teaching i've maybe had a dozen perfect scores. Thats for experienced riders and new riders. We see more people defeat themselves by having that attitude that they want to do everything 100% perfect. As my sig says, motorcycling is like chess. Anyone can learn the moves. It takes a lifetime to master the game. All the MSF class is doing is teaching you the basic moves of the game.

As long as you have common sence, can ride a bicycle, and can follow directions, you will do great and have nothing to worry about.

If you can, try and ride a bicycle for a few hours between now and then. That will just get you refamiliar with balancing something on two wheels. It's not mandatory, but it will help, esp if you haven't ridden a bicycle in a while.

Get lots of sleep the night before and the nights of the class. Nothing will hurt you more then lack of sleep. Also keep yourself hydrated. Start drinking lots of water the day before class. Then keep drinking lots of water during the class.

Bring some good snacks to keep your energy up during the class.

Listen to what the instructors tell you. Trust them. They won't tell you to do something that you can't.

Pay attention to what they are saying and don't be afraid to ask questions. They would rather have you ask questions then to stop an exercise because you are confused.

Most importantly. Have fun. The MSF class is designed to be a no threat, positive learning experience. It's about having fun and learning to ride a motorcycle.

If you currently have a motorcycle or have friends with a motorcycle. DON'T let them give you any tips and DON'T practice on your own. We would rather have students with a clean slate to work with. It's easier to teach good habits, then to fix bad habits.

I hope that helps out some. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

outstanding post! BTW do you provide bikes/gear now and approximately how much does it cost? Just curious.

Our course runs $200. It's about 5 hours of classroom and 10 hours of range time on the bikes. We provide bikes, helmets, glasses, and gloves.

The bikes are all Suzuki GZ250's. We have two DR200's for taller students also.

The students need to have long pants, long sleeves, and sturdy over the ankle footwear.

Thanks! Yea that's WAY different then when I took the course in the early 80s. You had to have your own bike/gear and it wasn't mandated by the state.

What are we goingto do tonight Jimmy, Chris, Nick, Sterling, Sportinsflying, Al, and Misty?

Same thing we do every night Brian, try to take over the motorcycling world!!!!!!

:rockout: :dthumb:

Hey no offense,I think you guys do great work,but when the Army started mandating MSF in the 80s it was bad enough. Now that states are starting to...well someone is getting rich! When I took the course it was like $30 or something,granted they didn't provide bikes or whatnot but frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the bikes were donated like drivers ed cars are. It's great advertising and can get new riders familiar with your brand. Don't get me wrong,the MSF course is a great idea,but making it mandatory reminds me of when helmet laws started. Pre-helmet laws Shoei=$100 or so,within 2 years of the law Shoei=$200-300. Maybe I'm weird but it always makes me nervous when the Gov't gives a monopoly to a certain organization and then forces the public to use said organization. Next you're gonna tell me that you have to take the course every so often to keep your "M" endorsement. If it isn't the law now,I bet there's some MSF lobbyist in the state capital greasing palms to make it so! Sorry,I'm a small gov't minded guy...

My MSF course was $25 and they provided the bike. Of course they did away with that program last year.

My point exactly,it wasn't "mandatory" in Mi or it would have cost $200 and still be around. :idk: like I said,I think it's great but "mandatory" bothers me...

here is the best advice:
dont fuck up

What you have to keep in mind, however, is that FL has the highest number of bikes per capita in the U.S.; combine that with our 12-month riding season, and you end up with a lot more motorcycle related injuries and deaths than you might see in other areas. So I'm sure the intent is to promote education and try to lower those bad statistics....

I do wonder if the fact that there's no state income tax in FL affects funding for this sort of thing (i.e. why some states have subsidised programs and FL does not? :shrug:)

Currently the MSF Basic course is the default basic riding course. Harley-Davidson has its own program that's based on the MSF curriculum (Rider's Edge) and you get to learn on the Buell Blast. It's usually more expensive than an MSF course.

MSF courses all cost differently varying from states to states. Some states subsidize the fees, some don't. Some states will fully recognize the MSF certificate (yes, you have to pass the course to get the certificate) in such that you get your cert and you go down to the Motor Vehicle Department and they waive written exam and riding test. Some states only partially recognize the MSF cert and waive the riding test, but you still have to take the written exam.

Motorcycles are included, as is usually a helmet. Gloves, etc., are more of a local MSF deal.

The class isn't as easy as you think. The classroom work is easy but the riding is tough because they make you learn how to ride very slowly. Any idiot can get on and twist the throttle to go fast in a straight line. When you have to manipulate the clutch, throttle, front and rear brakes to move at walking pace and do U-turns and all that crap, it ain't that easy. That is not to say that the course is really tough because it's not. Neither is it a cake walk.

The MSF Basic course is but a beginner's introduction. There are other private companies that offer advanced riding courses ranging from advanced street riding (some ex-cop that does this whose name eludes me) to advanced roadracing/sport riding. Hell, there's even a wheelie school. And then there are books that you can learn and get really good tips from.

:werd: Here in FL, many schools offer what's called an ERC - Experienced Rider Course. It's recommended for riders with at least a year of riding experience, and it's taken on your own bike. Basically variations of some of the same exercises you learn in the BRC (Basic Rider Course), to learn the limits of your OWN bike, but in a controlled environment.

I believe it's a 1 day class, and runs about $100.

Here's the thing, it's not exactly mandatory. The state is no longer going to be giving the test, and you have to have an endorsement in order to register a motorcycle. But, MSF Schools can choose to offer a state-approved licensing test, which you take on your own bike, and after which you can go to the DMV and get your license. So you don't have to take the BRC.

I already know what you're going to say, and yes there will be a fee for the license test, but I think the cost is fixed by the state, and will most likely be ~$50. The fact is the person administering the test needs to be paid, plus there are costs associated with making and maintaining a range (the state-test uses a different layout than the MSF test, so you need a separate range).

My course was $50, and the provided the bike.
Weekend deal.
In the end, they let me try the course with my bike as well. :dthumb:

Ahhhh, now I misunderstood that part.... I thought you WOULD have to take it. (which personally I think is better)

Oh I totally hear what you're saying and BTW I passed the MSF course twice and on my own bikes,which was a V-max the 2nd time and not some oversized moped I could carry around the course,so nyah thankyou! (the Army used to make you take it every so often) I've also taken track classes and the like. I am not against the MSF course itself! I just have a problem with MANDATORY that's all. I'm sure that every little bit helps to keep accidents down and all but we all know that taking driver's ed doesn't stop kids from driving like manics 5 minutes after they get their licenses! That's where the company you keep comes in. It's like when your parents told you,you shouldn't drink,smoke,have sex before marriage,etc but as soon as you're out of the house...it's on! I also find it strange that a state that recinded it's helmet law has made MSF mandatory. It all smacks of politics and money to me,that's all.

Well then....nevermind! I was told it was mandatory! To me it would be like making veryone go to "Sears Driving School" before they could get a license!

:yes::yes:

When I took the course that is exactly what I was thinking. Then I get there and there are only two other people with leather jackets and I am the only one in real riding boots. And most people's gloves did not cover their wrists. :willy:

I ALWAYS wear my riding boots so I wanted to make sure I was comfortable controling the bike with them on. I guess I was the only one...:idk:

Just a FYI for you. Unfortunatly nobody is getting rich off of the MSF program. MSF is still the federal branch. Local states that adopt the MSF follow the MSF guidelines, but have leeway in a few areas. The individual schools are still privately owned.

There are alot more costs involved then you think for running a school. They have to pay to: rent the range, rent the classroom, buy helmets, gloves, glasses, about 5 cases of water each weekend, bags of ice each weekend, the school pays us for coaching, maintance of the bikes, insurance on the bikes and students, maintance of the range, repaving of the range when necessary, the school also has to pay the state & MSF for the books and materials for the classroom.

Most motorcycle manafactures have stopped all their loaner programs. Even when a fleet of motorcycles is loaned from a dealership, the school is still responsible for all repairs and maintance on the bikes.

Most schools now purchase their own motorcycles for use. So thats a hefty out of pocket expense. Since you need at least 14 bikes. 12 is the max students you can have, but you want at least 1 or 2 back up motorcycles.

Oh I know, I didn't take it that you were AGAINST it, I was merely trying to rationalize why the state is doing it this way. :D

ABSOLUTELY. The helmet thing pisses me off, too...

The state budgets X amount of dollars to motorcycle training, safety and education - a large portion of that goes to ABATE, who was a big player in the rescinding of the helmet law here. :no:

We actually tell students to check the weather and wear appropriate riding gear. Sometimes we'll even tell them just to wear a long sleeve shirt and no jacket.

During the summer, we've had temps of 107 on the range with no wind. So if you're cruising around at 15 mph with a jacket on and on the verge of heatstroke, you're not learning anything.

There comes a point where your mind goes into shutdown. We would rather prevent that and have the students be in approved riding gear, but comfortable.

:rant: We could all go on and on for days about that :panic:

Ok like I said I was told the course was mandatory which prompted that statement. But you did say the words "privately owned",it is my experience that few businessmen do things unless there is money to be made! I understand there are expenses to any business endevor and this is a business or why don't you all do it for free? Why not just charge enough to cover bike maint and course up keep? I think if you lowered the cost to say $50,the students could afford to buy their own water and helmets with the other $150. I would imagine $600 a class,two or three classes a week can cover the maint on some 250s and a lot. Anyway,I am NOT against taking the course,I am not against you or anyone making money,I am not against safety training,I am simply against gov't mandation of a private business to it's citizens!

i dont know whether its relevant or not but when I took the course, being a miltary dependent, the bases provide it free of charge and I beleive the instructors for our classes do it on a volunteer basis, both military instructors and civilians. So there is no money being made. The closest one if you arent military is more than an hour away and costs $300 and is split up over 2-3 weekends (i know its def at least 2).

Either way, even if i'd had to pay for it, I still would have taken it merely for the skills and knowledge I learned. There have been several instances in which I have used my knowledge from MSF without even consciously thinking about it and saved myself from serious wreckage...its worth whatever you pay to save your ass if needed!!

I took the course about two years ago, paid about $250. During the call I made to sign up, the lady said its only $20 if your under 18! Two weekends, about 8 hours each day. One day in class, the other 3 on the course. Motorcycles, old 250cc cruisers, were provided. Helmets were available, but you had to wear a plastic hair net. Long sleeve shirt, jeans, ankle boots and gloves that covered the fingers. Very good experience.

We only had one guy get sent home. He dropped the bike during one of the maneuvers, they worked with him during break, but I guess he wasn’t getting it.

Everything that is on the riding test is what they teach, no surprises. The hardest part for me was the low speed figure eight. Had to put my foot down (better than dropping the bike). I believe a dropped bike during the test = fail.

Have fun, don’t try to be better than anyone out there, don’t register in the same class as a friend/sig other.

Oh me too! I would have at least taken it for the ins discount if nothing else and I think you're right,it was free and the instructors were volunteers. They must have really felt it was important to donate their time that way! Too bad everyone isn't as committed to the cause of motorcycle safety!!!:whistle:

I'm with you, but as Brian said, there will still be options for everyone.

Which is all I ask for and all I've ever fought for in our democracy!:pat:

Our instructors were INCREDIBLE!! One was retired military and working in civil service and the other was a Tech Sgt. The retired guy was one of the best riders I have ever seen, not only as a regular everyday rider, but the tricks he could pull on his Valky with a sidecar were friggin hilarious!!

Hey it's a business just like any other business in this world. Sure there is money to be made, but alot more goes into it then most people see. Just like any other business.

It's only a part time job for me. I have a full time job during the week. I think we should get credit for giving up our weekends to train people who want to get into this sport.

It doesn't make me or anyone else rich. We do it because we are passionate about motorcycles and we enjoy seeing people learn and grow throught the weekend. In the 20 + hours I work during a weekend coaching, my pay comes out to about $8 an hour after putting gas in my truck and buying lunch. Not that i'm complaining at all. I absolutly love it. If I could do it full time I would. If I could do it for free, I would. Because it's a fun and rewarding job. How many other people in this world can say that?

As far as the military instructors being volunteers. They sure are when they work on base. But guess what, they are still getting paid by the military. So it's not like they are working for free.

Not to mention, most of them also work at private schools, just like the one I work at on weekends. They still have to be sponsored and go through the range aid process. They get paid when they work off base, just like I do. The reason they work on base is it gets them out of their regular job while they are coaching a class. We have 2 Navy instructors that currently work with us. We have had instructors in the past who were in the army, marines, and air force. It's the same for all of them.

Exactly! Dont prepare! Go open minded so as to learn it all! And then take that home and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!! Good Luck to ya!

Umm Rae's was retired military but anyway,I actualy appreciate what you do! Not everyone has the patience to stand out in the heat and try to teach someone who can barely walk and chew gum at the same time how to ride a motorcycle! I'm mostly ribbing you now! I've belonged to Big Brothers/Big Sisters and I tell ya if it weren't for the milfs of loose morals,there wouldn't have been any benefits to doing it!

:dvrofl:

Wow! A lot of excellent advice. Thanks a ton, guys!

Pics and stories ASAP!

:withstupid: stories and :nopic:

Stories I have pis I do not,sorry..that was before I had a camera phone. Heck,the girl I had is graduating next year!

stories will do... I vote new thread... titled Adventure of Tigger and the Milfs

I don't know about FL, but here in MI and in other surrounding states you can take it through several different community colleges and get the course for $25

damn... it was free through Yuba Community College in CA(well other than tuition... though I don't know how much that was as they have 100% tuition assistance)... but in AK it was $250... Oregon it's about $250.... I've heard of some states being in upwards of $500... :jd:

http://www.mtii.com/countymiamidade/miamidade.html

i did this one, it was a good course. The rider coaches were great, didn't bore you off your ass droning on and on about blah...

Learn from Stunters. They got mad skillz yo.

Good point OSP. But it doesn't hurt to have them teach you the basics. A buddy of mine use to race ATVs and had trouble turning the bike for a bit until my buddy who rode streetbikes said "Push down on the bar in the direction you want to turn". Such as if you want to go left push on your left bar to help steer. I learned that too and it made a big difference.

Unfortunately as soon as I got my bike my friends pretty much had to sell theirs becuase they needed money. So I got stuck riding alone then went to forums for advice and that helped even better.

In the "Other Forum" I posted a thread that had a bunch of instructional videos that I think were great and helped me a ton. After watching them once my riding improved big time.

I'll dig them up again and post them on here when I get a chance.

For now here are the vids on another forum incase some aren't allowed to view the other one(I'll get a thread for TWFix later)...
http://southeastmotorcycleforum.com/...hp?topic=135.0

OH yeah. On a Georgia forum some Florida transplants where talking about the Florida test and said it was very difficult. A guy with a 06 CBR1000rr said he couldn't do a U-turn with his bike. Even when he got off of it and walked it to demostrate the bike literally could'nt do it.