If you have not crashed: What does it mean???
 

I've wondered about this but for those who have never crashed, why do you think that is?

1. lucky as hell
2. too safe and conservative riding skill, thus not challenging their skills
3. just wait it's coming
4. just have mad skills and is the "one" of motorcycling
5. bike never leaves the garage
6. they have not passed Tater's ex whore of a wife in said curve yet.

Just wait, its coming.

2 types of riders, people who have gone down and those that haven't yet :idk:

I don't believe that. I've honestly known people who rode for years and whom never crashed. It is not impossible to ride motorcycles and not crash. I rode from 16 years old and didn't crash until I got a sportbike and didn't crash one of those until 1998 when I hit a deer. That was almost 17 years without a crash.

1. lucky as hell

I also know of people that have rode for decades w/o crashing. But odds are, the more time you spend on a bike, the bigger your chances are that something will eventually go wrong. Just like with any sport or driving a car, for that matter.

Push it hard every weekend and I also commute everyday 25 miles year round. Never crashed. Many near misses, but never went down.

I ride very well....but lets face it there is a good amount of luck (or maybe an angel watching over me :tremble:) in sportbike riding. I also speed all the time and lanesplit everywhere.

Just give it time...

I'm the ONE.

Its an odds game.

EVERYONE WILL go down at some point in their motorcycling life. EVERYONE. It may be a little 5mph lowside in your driveway, or it might be that crash that you never get up from and all thats left is a few screws and maybe some twisted metal, or any degree of severity in between. (hopefully toward the more minor degree)

Personally, I've crashed a few times, learned what not to do in that scenaro from each one, thanked the motorcycle gods, and moved on.

but you did crash which falls under the "there are two kinds of riders, ones that have crashed ans ones that have yet to crash"

I rode for years without a crash then bam 3 totaled bikes in 5 years and a couple drops in the same time and nothing for the last 3+ years.

I think that's ridiculous personally....and it gives me an opportunity to start one of my inane arguments! :rockwoot:

Do you believe that absolutely EVERYONE will be involved in an automobile accident? Heck, 20-25% of the population has herpes, does that GUARANTEE that EVERYONE will get it eventually regardless of how careful they are? Of course not. Not EVERYONE that rides a motorcycle is going to crash. Shit, insurance would be impossible to get if every bike on the road was going to be crashed at some point. Sheesh...

Oh sure I've crashed but not until I got a sport bike, if I had kept riding cruisers or had quit riding all together, like many do in their 30s, I could have never crashed. Shit, up until two years ago, I had never had a single vehicle crash and I was doped up for that one! That was after 25 years of riding and about 12 years of sport bike riding. I just don't believe that the guy riding a Rebel 250 is GUARANTEED to crash eventually. Yes I know it is POSSIBLE to crash one, btw. I came from a Harley family and I know for a fact that I have uncles that have ridden since WWII and Korea without crashing. My uncle McKinley just got rid of his pan head a few years ago and it has never been crashed to my knowledge.

low mileage doesn't count. that's basically not riding. ;)

I believe for me it's a combo of #1 and #3.

I had a damn close call 2 weeks ago that was a really weird experience. I had taken off work to go riding in the mountians - made my way up and over and down into Helen. Was riding back towards 19/400 on a stretch that has a passing lane and I got in the left lane to pass some vehices.

As soon as I passed a large white truck, I just got a funny feeling. I can't explain it. I just thought I should get over to the middle, between the two lanes. So I moved over far right in the left lane and as I came up to the top of a hill I was confronted with a stupid cunt in a Grand Cherokee heading towards me in MY lane. She must have been one of these idiots that likes to drive hundreds of feet into oncoming traffic as she approaches her eventual left turn, instead of staying in her fucking lane. Anyway, I quickly swerved into the right lane and slowed down and hoped she wasn't going to cream me. She saw me and made a stupid face as it dawned on her that she almost killed me. She started to pull back into the proper lane as I was passing her with my arms up in a "You stupid fuck" manner. She didn't even look at me or wave a hand to motion she was sorry. It's wierd - it all happened within 3-4 seconds but I remember it as if it were slo-mo. Felt like I had a guardian angel looking out for me, for sure.

Any way, my luck will eventually run out some day, I'm sure.

Nah he rode all the time... he basically got me into riding. My Dad was 41 when I was born so he was done with bikes by the time I got one. Anyway, I know that this isn't a "winnable" argument because no matter how many examples, charts or criteria I come up with to prove my point. You all will just blow it off somehow, like with this "low mileage doesn't count" horseshit. It doesn't matter, but I still maintain that it's ridiculous to believe that EVERYONE in the world that rides a motorcycle of any type will eventually crash.:idk:

To me this is just a lame excuse to justify "your" stupidity or lack of skills. That includes me btw. My first crash was when I hit a deer with my '97 YZF1000. A lot of people would excuse me for that incident but the fact is that I should have been going slower and paying more attention in that area, during that time of day. If I had, it wouldn't have happened. If I had been on a 250 Exciter, it wouldn't have happened. If I had been smart enough to stay out of the country during dusk, it wouldn't have happened. Etc.

Yea but can't you see that IF you had just fell in line with the rest of traffic this whole incident wouldn't have happened? Also, in this example the type of vehicle you were operating hasn't any bearing on the scenario. In fact, imho it's a GOOD thing you were on a bike or you may not have been able to avoid the collision. :idk:

Im of the "2 types of rider crowd". You've either been down or your going down, be it a "crash" or a fall over.

Huh? There were two lanes of traffic in the direction I was going, one lane of oncoming traffic. Slower vehicles were in the right lane and I was one of the vehicles in the left lane. Guess I wasn't clear in my post.

Hmmm... I still think it's a "sport bike" rider mindset and not a "motorcycle rider" mindset. I grew up around Harley people and I doubt that that 3/4 of them ever crashed in decades of riding. In fact, I'd say that their chances of crashing their bikes were considerably less than their getting into a car accident. Oh and the "fall over" crash... well, I've never just dropped a bike in my life. I'm sorry but you have to be either stupid, weak or riding a bike that's WAY too tall for you.:sorry: Besides, how can dropping your bike count as a "crash", come on! I once had to repair a hanger door where the guy was pushing his Cesna back and smacked the track... I guess you'd say he was involved in a PLANE CRASH!!!:lol: This is what I mean by looking for ways to make the "everyone crashes" POV make sense.:lol: Hey I once dropped a wrench and scratched my tank, does that count as a crash?:lol:

I've had a couple drops at <1mph and a scary off road excursion a few weeks ago. I'm a very conservative street rider. When I see a turn the first thing I'm thinking is where is the dirt, gaurd rail, decreasing radius, etc.

No I understand that there were to lanes going your way, I'm just saying that you didn't HAVE to pass the traffic that was, let's face it, going the speed limit. You could have fell into line to the right and never even had this incident. That's all. You were probably speeding but if you weren't.... see what I mean? Anyway, I'm just saying that in some ways you can create your own "luck" by not engaging in certain behaviors.

Do you at least see that the type of vehicle you were operating had zero bearing on the incident? Quite frankly, regardless of what type of vehicle you operate, if you increase the number of miles you're on the road you will of course increase your chances of an accident. Although semi-truck drivers put on millions of miles without accidents and I worked worked for a company for 13 years, driving 200+ miles per day and never had an accident. I just don't understand why you all accept the inevitability of a motorcycle crash regardless of your behavior, training, skill, location or type of bike.

It does depend on your mindset. I didnt say that I think falling over is a crash, tho some people do count it.

FYI-the first person to ever tell me of the 2 types of rider rule was a harley/cruiser rider, who had been riding for 30+ years and never crashed. He still beleived it would happen, and I've seen first hand that it does. :shrug:

Oh I'm not saying that I've never crashed or had close calls! Fuck, I drive like an idiot most of the time and deserve to crash! I'm lucky to make it home without crashing almost everyday. I'm saying that IF I didn't ride that way and/or if I owned a Rebel, I'm pretty sure that my chances of a single vehicle crash would be almost nil and my chances of any crash would be GREATLY reduced, if not eliminated at my skill/experience level.

I'm on my second set of fairings....that's all I have to say.

I know that motorcycle accidents "exist" and that anyone CAN have an accident, you are saying that everyone that rides WILL have an accident. I know better... Besides, the only absolute statement I will ever believe in is that "everybody dies", beyond that all bets are off.

I think it's a combination of luck (cause no ammount of skill is gonna save you from someone pulling out, cutting you off, or a deer in a blind corner)

and skill... to avoid those circumstances that arise where you have the opportunity to avoid them.

the ratio of Skill to Luck changes from person to person. some it's 90% luck... others 90% skill...

but I think it's always a mixture of both.

I don't know how long you've been riding but do you mean to say that it's impossible for anyone, to ride as long as you have on any bike, anywhere in the world without having crashed? Just because you fucked up doesn't mean that everyone will.:lol:

I have ridden sport bikes for 18 years now and have never 'crashed' I have dropped my bike stopped when I put my foot in gravel/oil whatever, I have dropped it loading it on the trailer, pushing it etc. I do not consider that a crash. I feel a crash is something over 5-10 mph.

I'd like to think it's a combination of many things that account for this fact.
1. 18 years of experience in handling a bike
2. I do not 'push it' to the limit like some people even at that track. I do push and I'm fast enough but I'm not out trying to beat my best time every lap riding to the limit.
3. I do not commute and my street riding is more hill country and as far away from others as I can get so the risk of crashing of mainly on me to control my bike.

I will do everything in my power to NOT crash however I do ride with all gear because I know it can happen and I'm prepared for it when/if it does.

Will I ever crash? probably but then again, maybe not...

That's like backing a car into a pole. I consider a drop a crash. You had control of the bike and lost control of it, hence a crash.

exactly...


now if the bike was blown off the stand by the wind... not your fault...


but if you were in control... lost it... IMO it's a crash

So you just assumed I was speeding any everyone in the right lane was doing the speed limit and not putting along 10 MPH under. Nice.

There in is an issue. Ppl deciding that they're get off doesn't count.

Looping a bike doesn't count as a crash because I was going in a straight line and nobody else was involved.

I am now officially a non-crasher!

I can agree that probability can be a factor but I don't see it as a finite commodity that once exhausted, you crash...

I've had a few accidents myself, and in every case I could have avoided the circumstances or modified my behavior and not have crashed.

Oh lord! Yeesh, okay it's true that I imagined that you were going faster than traffic, hence passing and that the traffic was going at least the speed limit as it often does.... Why ever would someone assume that? Are you looking for reasons to be offended or what? Were you going the exact speed limit then or were you speeding? Yes or no. Does it really matter what the other traffic was doing really? In any case, do you or don't you agree that it didn't fucking matter what type of vehicle you were operating? I've asked this question 3 times now. What does the fact you were on a bike have to do with the incident? How is that relevant? Why does that PROVE that everyone that rides a motorcycle will someday inevitably crash?

But with your reasoning, just riding your bike makes it your fault. If you'd have not ridden, you wouldn't have wrecked on those days.

Loading onto a trailer isn't crash though right? Also, if you're getting out of the car a bang the door into a pole, is that a crash? :lol: Just kidding, you're saying that if you are operating the vehicle and it hits something, including the ground, you have been involved in a crash. Okay, I can see that.

For the record, my insurance company does not consider that a "collision" but files it under comprehensive, so it's a good thing that you don't run my insurance company if I ever were to drop my bike.:lol:

I believe in the 2 types of riders thing.

Reason being: NOT that we are all doomed from the second we put up the kickstand. BUT that being realistic about what could happen on a bike makes it a whole lot easier to deal with when it DOES happen..

Maybe you go for 40 years without a sigle incident, but I would never want to be in a place where I think I can't crash because of skill/experience/whatever.

The first thing that crossed my mind when I got hit, 'well, shit happens' No panic, just you knew this could happen when you put up the kickstand. :shrug:

Considering you know nothing about me, I don't know, why ever would you assume that?

No.

Yes, I was going the speed limit.

I've ignored your question becuase you are comparing apples and oranges. The original question asked was about having crashed/dropped a bike, anyway. You say there's no difference what vehicle you operate. Bullshit. There's too many differences between the two - plenty of additional ways to fuck yourself up on a bike vs. a car. Cars don't lowside / highside like a bike can. Bikes don't handle running over objects in the road like a car will. Cars don't head shake. Do you honestly believe that the chances of getting into trouble are even when comparing a bike and an auto? And please point out where I stated everyone on a bike will someday inevitably crash? I said nothing more than I believe my luck will run out some day. Jeez, man....chill out.

depends on how you are loading it. If you are riding it on and go down, that's a crash. If it gets dropped while you are strapping it down or pushing it, that's different. As with the car door banging on the pole. If you are riding it and come to a stop and lose balance, that's definitely a crash which is the one I am talking about, not so much the trailer incident.

Wife dropped hers in the driveway so hopefully that's it for her. I got hit by a car and broke several bones so that should cover me. We're done with crashes...right ? :?:


Yes I'm joking and now I'm hoping I didn't just jinx the two of us.

Oh yeah...I crashed two other times through the years too. :lol:

Oh no you don't! I said that I could have avoided the circumstances which means riding my bike, at that time, in that location, in the reckless manner I was riding. If I had modified those factors, I could have avoided my crashes. I'm not saying "avoid riding period".

Examples;

1. 1998 deer crash
a. I was riding at dusk
b. doing 80+ in a 45
c. out in the country

2. 2001 rear ended on the way to Blessing of the bikes
a. was leading a large pack of sport bikes
b. doing well over 100 mph
c. passing a large group of slower moving Harleys
d. went back over to the right without checking mirror and nitwit was passing me on one wheel.

3. 2007 high side
a. was doped up on pain killers
b. low temperature
c. didn't let my tires warm up properly
d. caught a manhole cover in a corner that I didn't notice

I could go on but my point is I could have avoided all of these accidents with better judgment/behavior.

You go out riding and a meteor hits you-unavoidable.

You go riding after being told there's a meteor shower coming and you are hit by one-judgment and completely avoidable.

if, if, if, it's still a crash. you can't change what happened. out of my 3 crashes none were caused by the same set of circumstances.

damage not involving another vehicle crash or drop in the driveway is comprehensive as far as I know. at least that is how my insurance has handled it every time.

IDK, my personal opinion is that yes I have laid the bike down but that I have not crashed it. Some might think them the same I do not and that's ok...it's all good...:)

On the dirt, if you don't crash you're not going fast enough. And it doesn't have to mean you're fast, just going faster than you should have. I've crashed my dirt bike many times.
I've crashed once on the street, when a deer ran out. We were going pretty slow under35 so speed wasn't a factor.

Ah but were location or time of day? Were you paying complete attention or were you "sight seeing"?

Oh sure, this is all about opinion. There is concrete proof that not everyone that rides crashes but these guys choose to ignore that and believe whatever they want.:idk:

Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot.

:nee:

lol

:lol:

No hidden meaning. Just stating that I'm on my second set (indicating that the last set slid on the concrete against my will) and that is all I'm saying on this topic.

I shall say no more on this jinx happy topic.

It was near dusk, and it was rural, though it was close to where I live which is rural.
We were just putting along, I noticed a headlight in my mirror, checked my speed a bit under 35, and my wife told me to watch the deer. It was 2 lane, in the left lane crossing was a deer, being followed by one on the right. That one veered in the direction we were going, I probably could have reached out and touched it. When my wife called out, I closed the throttle (HD twin cam), and started braking as soon as I saw them and knew where they were. I thought he was getting ready to jump across the front of the bike, and moved more toward the center of the road and increased my braking. I don't know if he hit the front tire, or I locked the front tire. But we went down.

I had lots of involvement in our crash.

It means you haven't crashed. Don't read more into it than is actually there.

Damn... and another one goes....

Thanks for that anyway... This is kinda funny to me. I'm the POSITIVE one for a change and everyone else is trying to prove that something negative is going to happen no matter what we do as motorcyclists. :lol:

We're not being negative. We're being realistic. What do you think the percentage is of people who don't wreck? What do you think the odds are of not crashing ever?

I'm really not trying to be negative. But, I bet the odds of never losing control of your motorcycle are up there with taking home a sizable sum of money in the lottery.

Okay, I can't find the actuarial tables but I still find it hard to believe that insurance companies would write policies knowing that 100% of their clients will eventually crash. Oh well, I just don't like absolutes I guess... If even one dork in North Dakota rides a rebel 250 for one Summer without a crash, it destroys your stated POV IMHO.

If 8 people take the msf without dropping the bike once, then never ride again would you count them as well? They quit riding, to me that's worse than a crash. IMHO

Yea what's really bad is that I've wasted most of the day doing this....:pwhore2: and not doing this :moto:. The positive thing is that I may have staved off my next inevitable crash for a few hours.

I'm not going to say everyone will crash, as that can probably be proven false.

But I think more people crash than don't. But I'd also guess most people crash their bicycles a few times too.

Oh yea now that's true! All of your children will eventually get injured riding their bicycles! There's no doubt about that one!

I haven't gone down other than dropping my bike in my garage while trying to back it out with me not even on the seat.

But I've had a shit ton of close calls. One close call involved me rolling about 65mph at nighttime and coming so close to hitting a deer that I brushed it's tail and could see the top of it's back. I was also on 1 wheel with the rear tire the highest off the ground it's ever been and then going into a 1 wheel wobble and when I sat down came very close to a tank slapper but gassed out.

I've always had very good driving skills, even as a teenager. Even driving a F450 with a backhoe on the back through Atlanta rush hour traffic I've never had a close call. Infact I've never been in a wreck and only in a wreck as a passenger once.

But I'm sure my time will come.

yeah, cuz you just jinxed yourself. :bonk:

naw... I don't believe it's a finite quanity...


though if you look at it like Keth Code (I think it was him) that says that each action costs you skill points... and you wreck at 0... some times a look over your shoulder will cost you 1 pt... others it'll cost you 90...

makes sens to me... but what I was talking about was more why you haven't wrecked... some times it's pure luck... sometimes a combination of your skill and luck... others your skill is what gets you out of the situation.

Here's one to ponder: Does a rider's skill eventually get them into trouble?? I'm thinking about Trip's when to slow down thread. He feels he's at the point where he can not safely go any faster w/o harm/ serious risk. He's smart enough or mature enough to see this. BUT many out there, keep pushing and pushing the envelope until they are in the high percentile risk of crashing.

The Awesome for example only knows one way to ride, has TONS of skill, but has also decided he can no longer accept the risk of riding. Once you have reached that potential or that your skills are on par with the bike, it's only a matter of time, given the slight margin for error is even less.

I like the way u think. Personal responsiblity is hard to find these days...:rockwoot:

There are alot of factors in riding, but even a "good" rider cannot control mechanical, other vehicle or weather factors. Its a chance game to say the least.

Oh sure, I understand that but "if" you go out when there are negative factors...

I havent been down yet. this year. But i cant stand the "two types of riders" montra. The young and stupid are the biggest risk takers, so it may be true with them, but im sure that many seasoned riders or those not willing to go over the speed limit have never and will never crash.

So, out of all this discussion, we know of 2-3 people out of hundreds OR thousands of riders who haven't been down.

you forget the things out of their control... people pulling out on them... a blow out... a animal running out... all of those can catch ANY OF US no matter how seasoned or experienced...

I'll have to dig up the statistics but the Georgia DOT did some study from 2005 about motorcycle crashes. Or more specifically fatal crashes. the highest fatality rate was the 30-40 range. Of course the 20-30 was the 2nd highest.

True but those types of accidents aren't "motorcycle specific" and you may as well say that all operators MOTOR VEHICLES will eventually crash... If you operate your motorcycle the same way that you drive your car I truly believe that you are less likely to crash your bike because of it's greater avoidance and braking capabilities.

I guess that's just me....

Does GA have a helmet law? thats another factor to consider in states with no helmet laws. I also believe there are studies that show higher fatality rates where helmets are optional.

Tom

Yep - we have a helmet law.

Yep. We have a helmet law.

My guess as to why the reasoning of more fatalities in the 30-40 crowd is that they finally have decent jobs and can afford the toys they want. So they go out and buy a motorcycle despite they haven't ridden a bicycle in 20+ years. And since they have the money to get what they want they aren't forced into a smaller motorcycle like many young adults. They get the big bad 1800 or the hayabusa that they always wanted.

I also guess that a body of a teenager or early 20 year old can take a fall much better than the body of someone in their mid-30s.

I remember hearing something similar about people in the 40's to 50's demographic. They were now succesful and can afford a bike and were either new to the sport or hadnt ridden in many years.

Tom

Spent a few years working in dealerships and these were the scariest customers. We knew the bike would be back for repairs sooner than if a 20 something bought a sportbike. Can't tell you how many crashed leaving the parking lot.

I hear tons of stories of guys crashing just out of the dealer or even just in the parking lot. They are a good source of track bikes too, plastics get rashed up, a small scratch on the frame and the bike is totaled.

Tom

Almost all of the experienced riders would truck or trailer the bike away. It was the 40 to 50 year old we all came out to watch leave. :)

Cheap entertainment at a dealership.

Had one guy buy an FJR and didn't make it 10 feet out on the road. He was looking back, waving at the wife and hit a telephone pole! Totaled the bike.

That hurts, I realy like the FJR too.

Tom

I had a guy at a dealership recomend to my buddy a R1 saying that since he weighed roughly 400lbs he wouldn't be happy with the power of a 600. He bought a Katana 600 and wrecked it turning into a parking lot. Which sucked cause I was only 5minutes behind him and missed hte fun and excitement.

And I also watched a salesman sell a VTX1800 to some 50 year old woman who probably weighed after eating a 10lb cheeseburger 90lbs.

Which I don't care what a salesman sells to someone. If some 18 year old squid comes in saying "I want a hayabusa so I can wheelie at 180mph" I'll tell him to "sign here". But people do come in and say "I'm new to riding and looking for...". The least they can do is recomend something decent.

Which I love their favorite sales line when someone asks "How much difference is there between a 600 and a 1000". They don't want to say it's stupid powerful so instead they say "It's as powerful as you twist your wrist". Sorry fucker but sneezing on a R1 and flicking your wrist can cause you to loop out.

Being 54 I try not to think about that too often, but it seems that age does make a big difference in how much damage you can survive. I read something about this. Two people with the exact same injuries and one is say 20 the other is 50, the older person is much more likely to die from it than the 20 year old. I guess that is why we get slow and careful when we get old.

I guess imagine if a bunch of 50year olds tried the shit they try on Nitro Circus. They'd for sure die.

I would say that if someone has ridden for, say, 10,000 miles without crashing or at least tipping over, then they probably ride too conservatively for my tastes.

I haven't crashed yet, but some of you know I ride like an old man. It's through caution and luck that I've stayed up so far.

:rockwoot:

I think it's a combination of everything. I try not to think/dwell about it. I know the possibility is there, just can't worry about it.

It means it hasn't happened yet.

It surprises me to see so many riders taking the "two kinds of riders" line to heart... i only expect to hear that from old women.

Well, I certainly believe that the opposite is true- that a lot of people who have crashed have a tendency to ride too aggressively. I don't really care about "challenging my skill"... I just ride for fun. And I find the idea that if you're not crashing, you're not riding fast enough ON THE STREET... well, appalling, i think is the word.

So, I guess you would put me in category #2 :idk: I can live with that. My bike's sitting outside waiting to take me home from work, and she says she can live with that too :lol

And FWIW, i don't consider a drop to be a "crash". A crash occurs when you are piloting a vehicle that is in motion and under power. If I am pushing a bike into a trailer and it falls because I lose my grip, it's not a crash. If I'm lifting a car with a hydraulic jack in the wrong spot and it falls off the jack, it's not a crash. Those are fuckups.

hahahahaha