Front brake vs. rear brake

[Cutty72]

I did my MSF in pouring rain, so I got the experience from the get go!

I just slow it down and be more careful with what I'm doing.
The spray off other vehicles bothers me more than the actual riding in the rain.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Tmall

I always use both except when I'm going very slow, in which case ill drag a little rear.

But, you should be practicing how to do it, not trying to find out how to get away without doing it.

It is there for a reason..

you can't be serious

There's a lot of racers that don't use rear brake on the street/track. You don't have to use the rear on typical street conditions, it's not getting away with anything. A lot of us that don't use it, can use it if they want to, but choose not to use it. I use it all the damn time off road or on my dirt bike, but never use it on the street unless I come into a condition that calls for it like gravel or other particle debris. There is more than enough stopping power in the front of a modern sport bike than you will ever need. For you safety nazi's on the board, you aren't going to want to be backing it in on public streets anyway. Rear use is not a big concern on the street.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by Trip

you can't be serious

There's a lot of racers that don't use rear brake on the street/track. You don't have to use the rear on typical street conditions, it's not getting away with anything. A lot of us that don't use it, can use it if they want to, but choose not to use it. I use it all the damn time off road or on my dirt bike, but never use it on the street unless I come into a condition that calls for it like gravel or other particle debris. There is more than enough stopping power in the front of a modern sport bike than you will ever need. For you safety nazi's on the board, you aren't going to want to be backing it in on public streets anyway. Rear use is not a big concern on the street.

So, you think it's better to hide a deficiency than correct it? And you're the one laughing??

What if the topic was, "using a clutch"? Would you say that since you can technically rev match and never use it, that not learning how is a good alternative? After all, you could push the bike to get it moving and then click it into gear, who needs a pesky clutch??

[No Worries]

I get caught in the rain a lot. On corners, I just lean off the bike a little more to keep the bike more upright. Most of the roads out here are tar and chip which aren't affected much by rain. The big problem is wet steel. Manhole covers, temporary steel plates, and steel bridges are very slippery when wet. Also, slippery are the painted and vinyl pedestrian crossings and markers.

I use both brakes all the time. I'll use just the rear brake when I'm going uphill on several sharp curves. The rear brake slows the bike, keeps the suspension even, and I can downshift and exactly match the rpm with my right hand for a perfect exit. Most riders have a problem using the rear brake because their foot is so much stronger than their hand.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Tmall

So, you think it's better to hide a deficiency than correct it? And you're the one laughing??

What if the topic was, "using a clutch"? Would you say that since you can technically rev match and never use it, that not learning how is a good alternative? After all, you could push the bike to get it moving and then click it into gear, who needs a pesky clutch??

How's it a deficiency? It's a different technique. I can use it just fine when a situation needs it. If I can get a sportbike, I will be more than happy to show you how it's done and we can see who has a deficiency in their riding. The Awesome would've been more than happy to show you since he also raced with this technique. Kevin Schwantz would be more than happy to take you to school. It's all about rider comfort, some like using the rear brake, some don't. It's not a deficiency by any means. I can use it quiet effectively on the dirt.

If you don't care about your transmission, like say if it was a race bike that would have a complete tear down after every race, yes you could get away without using the clutch. However, since we don't do that after every street ride, being kind to your transmission is a necessity. Plus we have to do all sorts of stop and go with traffic lights and all so not using the clutch would make life hard.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by No Worries

I use both brakes all the time. I'll use just the rear brake when I'm going uphill on several sharp curves. The rear brake slows the bike, keeps the suspension even, and I can downshift and exactly match the rpm with my right hand for a perfect exit. Most riders have a problem using the rear brake because their foot is so much stronger than their hand.

You have a much heavier bike than the modern sportbike as well. You want all the stopping power you can get on that thing. Cruzergirl is in the same situation. She isn't riding a cutting edge race bike. The rear brake can be effective if your front braking power is not up to the job of stopping the bike effectively. This isn't an issue for a light modern sportbike.

[OreoGaborio]

Well, regarding the front/rear brake debate, here's a direct copy/paste of a post that was just made by author, and my "boss" at the track, Ken Condon:

The rear brake aids in stability and reduces stopping distances IF done correctly.

Try this: Apply a bit of rear brake before applying the front brake to feel the stabilizing effect.

On the track, I rarely use the rear brake and instead allow a certain amount of engine braking to slow and stabilize the bike as I enter corners. For most track riders, using the rear brake pedal is too distracting and can result in rear tire lock up if not done precisely (because of drastic forward load transfer where the rear tire has little weight to keep it planted).

On the street, I use front and rear brakes all the time.

As for wet riding, the most important part about maintaining stability and traction is staying LIGHT on the bars and SMOOTH with all of your control inputs.

NEVER bet tense or white knuckled.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by G-Rex

If you're not comfortable in the rain, do a track day in the rain. This was one of the single biggest things that helped me get over any fear I might have had of riding in the rain.

It sounds crazy, but he's 100% right. Doing a wet track day is some of the BEST rider education and experience that ANY street rider could get!

One of my most memorable track moments (non race) was a rainy track day at Loudon where I didn't have my rain tires with me. I rode around all day on Diablo Supercorsas which are simply TERRIBLE in the rain. I was working that day so I kept things tame, but the last session or two everyone that was on the track was doing well and traffic was light I decided to have a little fun. I was sliding ALL OVER the place & just having an absolute blast. It was extremely educational as to what my DOT race tires are capable of... and since I run the same tires on my street bike (take-offs) I know what they're like should I get caught in the rain on the street (yeah, i'm a fair weather rider for the most part.)

[Trip]

It's all about preference. People try to place their "preferences" on others where they are not needed.

This is about Kevin Schwantz school

Some of his preferences come into play in the course syllabus. Like his personal dislike of the rear brake, the use of which he discourages despite the fact that several of the world's top motorcycle racers currently use rear braking to rotate the bike in corners.

"I tried using the rear brake twice in my racing career", he explains. "And both times I found myself on the ground".

[Tmall]

You can be of your opinion, but two is always greater than one..