$447 bil

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

And as for "if you raise the pay, you'd get better quality people", OK maybe....... but how come you don't think that would be true for teachers as well?

Teachers are paid much better than they should be. When a Captain with much more responsibility makes less than some education major teaching 3rd graders to add raisins and to NOT stick them up their nose, then there is a pay problem. Then there are high school coaches who make insane bank.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Teachers are paid much better than they should be. When a Captain with much more responsibility makes less than some education major teaching 3rd graders to add raisins and to NOT stick them up their nose, then there is a pay problem. Then there are high school coaches who make insane bank.

Not all Captains have "much more responsibility"

Some are just engineers, or nurses, or pilots. While they might have a tough job, they don't actually manage/lead anyone until they become commander of a squadron or whatever.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Teachers are paid much better than they should be. When a Captain with much more responsibility makes less than some education major teaching 3rd graders to add raisins and to NOT stick them up their nose, then there is a pay problem. Then there are high school coaches who make insane bank.

What data are you basing this off on?

What are specific compensation numbers?
An elementary school teacher can make anywhere from 28K to 70K

[the chi]

I'm still laughing at the mental image of a kid with raisins and crayons stuck up his nose, what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, homie, would like to revise you're statement regarding "some captains"? Cuz last time I checked, "some Captain" who you say has no responsibility is an aircraft commander and responsible for the lives of every engineer, navigator, co-pilot, loadmaster, etc. on his plane. If being the one person in charge of making sure everyone completes the mission alive and in a plane that doesnt crash isnt a big responsibility, I'd kinda like to know what is. Especially since "some captain" is responsible for making sure my husband always makes it home. And my husband is responsible for making sure the pilot doesnt crash into a mountain flying at 300 feet, while "some engineer" is responsible for making sure he's done his job right so he doesnt cause a problem that could kill everyone else. And "some nurse" in the military is responsible for being at work and knowing what the hell she's doing if that flight does go down and she has to save someone's life. Like my husband or the rest of the crew. But hey, what does "some captain" have to be responsible for?

ETA: And news flash, as an officer, even straight outta school, you are responsible for the enlisted you work with and junior officers, and as you move up in rank it just keeps growing. You dont have to be a group, wing or squadron commander to have "responsibility".

[pauldun170]

Nice personal story and all but pretty useless in this thread.
Stay on fucking topic.

The point of this thread is to get smittie to admit that he was molested by his 3rd grade teacher hence his disgust for those who teach.

[the chi]

I'm sorry, please forgive me!

She stuck raisins up his nose didnt she? And made him eat the rubber cement...seriously, how many kids did this crap? Was I just not cool enough to stick things in my ears or nose?

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by the chi

I'm sorry, please forgive me!

She stuck raisins up his nose didnt she? And made him eat the rubber cement...seriously, how many kids did this crap? Was I just not cool enough to stick things in my ears or nose?

Why do you assume it was a she?
Cant men be 3rd grade teachers?
Your F'n sexist.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Teachers are paid much better than they should be.

All other arguments aside, this mentality is why American student performance will continue to slide in relation to other industrialized countries. And I'm sure it will be "the teachers' fault" the whole time...

That said, "some captain"* makes a minimum of $44,542.80 a year gross, before peace-time add-ons like COLA and BAH. I don't know a single public school teacher who makes that kind of money. The ones with masters' degrees and 15 years or more experience are lucky to make close to that. You can look here, http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state, to compare starting salaries, but I guarantee you those numbers are overestimates when you're talking about public schools.

I will grant you, the teachers I know are in southern states. I understand teachers in other states get paid more, but they also pay quite a bit more to live. Just take a look at gas price comparisons, for instance.

Put "some captain" anywhere near a war zone, well... My base pay as a lowly E-6 was $37,778.40 based on pay tables for last year. With hazardous duty pay, BAH, etc., I was taking home about $60K a year. Tax free.

As to which one has the harder job; I hated every day in Afghanistan. But I'd take 5 more years of that before I took one year as a teacher in an American public school. 15 if we're talking inner city...



*Assuming an O-3 captain, not a Navy / Coast Guard O-6 captain.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by the chi

I'm still laughing at the mental image of a kid with raisins and crayons stuck up his nose, what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, homie, would like to revise you're statement regarding "some captains"? Cuz last time I checked, "some Captain" who you say has no responsibility is an aircraft commander and responsible for the lives of every engineer, navigator, co-pilot, loadmaster, etc. on his plane. If being the one person in charge of making sure everyone completes the mission alive and in a plane that doesnt crash isnt a big responsibility, I'd kinda like to know what is. Especially since "some captain" is responsible for making sure my husband always makes it home. And my husband is responsible for making sure the pilot doesnt crash into a mountain flying at 300 feet, while "some engineer" is responsible for making sure he's done his job right so he doesnt cause a problem that could kill everyone else. And "some nurse" in the military is responsible for being at work and knowing what the hell she's doing if that flight does go down and she has to save someone's life. Like my husband or the rest of the crew. But hey, what does "some captain" have to be responsible for?

ETA: And news flash, as an officer, even straight outta school, you are responsible for the enlisted you work with and junior officers, and as you move up in rank it just keeps growing. You dont have to be a group, wing or squadron commander to have "responsibility".

The point I was trying to make is, not every officer is in a war zone, making life and death decisions. That's a lot more Army and Marines than it is Air Force or Navy. All depends on specialty of course. A combat air controller or PJ in the Air Force has a lot more responsiblity than an AF engineer, in my opinion, because he is reponsibile for kicking ass, saving lives, being a strong team player, and motivating others......Not just "I am responsible for $100 million worth of equipment".......Tons of people can say that. Couple friends of mine were AF engineers who simply worked in a lab. They did not have to evaluate anyone. And as for pilots? Shit, for the first 2 years they are busy becoming an expert in what they do. Obviously, later on they will be responsible for training and potentially leading others, and such, but come on.

And sorry, but this so-called $47K salary for teachers is complete BS..........They must be averaging across people who've been doing it for decades.......And probably only using schools in large metro areas. You get a starting job in a small Midwest town, you're not going to make more than like $25K to start.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Nice personal story and all but pretty useless in this thread.
Stay on fucking topic.

The point of this thread is to get smittie to admit that he was molested by his 3rd grade teacher hence his disgust for those who teach.

They were never that nice to me. If they did I would have loved school.

My disgust for teachers is how they like to put themselves on a pedestal as if they have the most horrible job on the planet and they are paid with whips on their backs. They keep saying "more money, more money, and by the way we need more money". We give them more money and they still suck (and if you find a good government school, odds are the numbers are stacked). I'm curious where the magical number is. If we give them 40trillion dollars and then give teachers a starting salary of $500k a year will that do it?

I just feel that on the Federal side of things, if we are going to spend a lot of taxpayer money, then it should be spent on legitimate functions of the Federal government such as the military. Not a state issue where the only reason the federal government cares is because of teacher's unions and scared mommies and daddies who are afraid that they'll have to spend their own money on their own kid's education instead of that new pimpin ride or a new LED TV.