shits gonna hit the fan now

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by Trip

The standardized test method is horseshit too.

So what do you propose as a middle ground?

[Trip]

What the rest of us go through. Draw up a list of performance indicators based on all of the different areas that your job entails. A percentage will be tests of course, but it will be just that a percentage like it should be. Review the performance based on those areas. If you are a continuous underperformer, your ass gets the can.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by '73 H1 Triple

It's time for the overly compensated teachers ( and especially the admins ) to get a dose of reality. WTF should they have a "golden parachute" of a retirement plan and pay next to nothing for for benefits when in the real world it doesn't work that way?

Don't give that bullshit of taking work home, they knew the "rules" when they picked that career.

Well, for starters, when they picked that career part of the "rules" were they got a certain retirement package if they could put up with America's snot nosed punks for 20 years.

But, more to the point, what is this Kool-Aid that everyone seems to be drinking regarding teachers' compensation? My mother, who is generally up until midnight or later every week night grading papers or doing some other school related work, gets paid roughly $30,000 a year. She has been a teacher for 30 years. She works at school 9 hours or more a day, at least once a week sacrificing a lunch hour (actually, 25 minutes) to watch the affore mentioned snot nosed punks and make sure they're not hitting each other over the head with lead pipes, or some other such nonsense (thankfully, gun violence due to poor parenting has not made it to her school yet). Some weeks she gets to sacrifice an hour of sleep everyday to get there early and make sure your little darlings aren't jumping in front of busses before school.

Summers off? My ass. She has less than a month during the summer when she's not doing some sort of work for school. Factor in the unpaid overtime throughout the school year and I guarantee you it's a fucking wash with the hours you work. Besides which, summer "vacations" themselves are less than 2 1/2 months, after which time parents are generally jumping through their asses to get their "little angels" the fuck out of their hair and back to school so the teachers can deal with them.

Overly compensated? UAW workers get paid $30 an hour or more for job placement training. In other words, if their company wants to fire them or lay them off, they have to pay them to look for work, while they go through a job placement course that in the military we called TAMPS (and lasted a week or less). You want union fat cats, look at Detroit. You want overpaid government workers, look at TSA. I fucking guarantee you that you got more for your money from teachers like my mom over the years than you did from either of those two classes of extortionists.

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by Trip

What the rest of us go through. Draw up a list of performance indicators based on all of the different areas that your job entails. A percentage will be tests of course, but it will be just that a percentage like it should be. Review the performance based on those areas. If you are a continuous underperformer, your ass gets the can.

Agreed - now you've gotta convince the current regime of bean-counters that it isn't all based on standardized testing that can fit in neat excel spreadsheets and access databases - in other words, they need to have people actually PERFORMANCE MANAGE just like in the corporate world. .

[wildchild]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

because a teacher who doesn't do some work during that time off, including taking courses to improve personal standing, will be working double-time during the year.

yep same as any other field. take courses to stay relevant and up to date or go away. the difference is we don't get 3 months of the year off to take courses we have to do it while working/parenting/being a spouse etc.

I agree with nhgunnut, it's not about are teachers good or evil. most people admire teachers for their job. the union makes them appear evil.

our senators have recieved death threats to themselves and their families.
would anyone here threaten a Gov't official for your job? probably not. think about it, how good do you have to have it before losing that benefit is worth threatening to kill someone?

this morning college students have filled locks on college buildings with superglue. lovely people involved in this protest. so respectful of property and others rights. guess they think they are the only ones in the state who matter.

[wildchild]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

You want union fat cats, look at Detroit. You want overpaid government workers, look at TSA.

Exactly!! look at them and where are they? every hates TSA for their bullshit that they do to justify their job and Detroit? where is that? what did their union get them? the worst city in the nation now isn't it? businesses are closed, houses are foreclosed yep good examples. let's follow their lead.

[Trip]

We don't need to get rid of the TSA union, we need to get rid of the TSA.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by wildchild

yep same as any other field. take courses to stay relevant and up to date or go away. the difference is we don't get 3 months of the year off to take courses we have to do it while working/parenting/being a spouse etc.

Though most other types of workers don't need the amount of external prep time, that a teacher does either. You can't really compare a car salesman or a receptionist to a teacher, for example.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by wildchild

yep good examples. let's follow their lead.

I'm sorry, did I give you the impression that I was citing them as examples to follow? My point is that there's a butt ton of fat to trim in this country before we should start worrying about "overpaid" teachers. And I mean public school, K-12 teachers here.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

I'm sorry, did I give you the impression that I was citing them as examples to follow? My point is that there's a butt ton of fat to trim in this country before we should start worrying about "overpaid" teachers. And I mean public school, K-12 teachers here.

Pay is not really a concern for me. I want to get rid of their tenure and how they are performance reviewed with a little helping of ability to fire poor performers.