Teaching newbies to ride.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

It should be sub $100 for the amount of people they put in the class.

Europe has much better training programs. That don't revolve around bruh bruh bruh bruh riders either. We just have shit for training here in the states.

Personally, I think the learn in the dirt when you are a kid is the best way to go about things.

I don't really give a damn what some guys who put on a class in Houston think really.

ok, so how much should a class cost? 12 students, how much you gonna pay instructors , one's that ride motorcycles (which tends to be a more affluent group then the avg car drivers).

and i agree eur. has a better system, but it ain't happening here, tiered licensing.........i wish........longer course.........lol , people can barely sit thru 2 days here.........

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

As others pointed out, according to this study the claim is the opposite of what you stated. http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/90432134.html#commentbox

But the accident rate of these people taking the MSF IMO has nothing to do with taking a course or being a more educated rider. Riders taking courses as such tend to be more sportbike oriented and as a result will push their limits. Also, a large reason people take the MSF course is to get out of taking the DMV road test, which is inherently harder on a sportbike.

that link is useless, the one derf put up is better

so who do riders that crash but don't claim it on ins. tell that they've crashed? most accidents are single bike. hell, i took msf crashed and told nobody so theoretically i would add to their stat but i didn't make a claim. so of ALL the crashes how many are unaccounted for and not in the stat? i would bet alot.

sportbike riders are the minority in class. cuz young guys already know everything........lol or don't make it a priority vs a cool bike.

before texas mandated MSF to get a license, the road course could be go down the street and back.....hard i know. if you think MSF class is weaksauce, you outta see the state tests.....lol

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

ok, so how much should a class cost? 12 students, how much you gonna pay instructors , one's that ride motorcycles (which tends to be a more affluent group then the avg car drivers).

sub $100, based on my experience MSF teachers don't necessarily have to be quality riders so paying a premium for them isn't a necessity.

Get a better course that is more in depth that is worth the extra cost for quality experienced riders as teachers and I would have no issue with a high cost.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

sub $100, based on my experience MSF teachers don't necessarily have to be quality riders so paying a premium for them isn't a necessity.

Get a better course that is more in depth that is worth the extra cost for quality experienced riders as teachers and I would have no issue with a high cost.

lol, people are scoffing at $100-200 now, you think raising the price is gonna fly.....even w/ "improved" riding.......this is the land of WAL-MART.......and instant gratification.

what do you want to see more indepth?


who's talking about quality, these instructors for the most part have real jobs and do MSF on the weekend , who's gonna stand in the hot sun (or cold rain) for 12-13hrs walk a few miles after working 40hrs for $10/hr........not me.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

lol, people are scoffing at $100-200 now, you think raising the price is gonna fly.....even w/ "improved" riding.......this is the land of WAL-MART.......and instant gratification.

what do you want to see more indepth?

who's talking about quality, these instructors for the most part have real jobs and do MSF on the weekend , who's gonna stand in the hot sun (or cold rain) for 12-13hrs walk a few miles after working 40hrs for $10/hr........not me.

I am not about what the cruiser people and people who want the lifestyle want, that's why I don't mind sending those people toward MSF. If someone I liked chose to learn, I would point them in what I would consider a more appropriate direction that would get them on the street safely.

Everything, the course is too minimalistic. It's a very basic overview of motorcycle operation when one should expect a motorcycle street training course.

It's the instructors choice to continue this system. No one is forcing them out there. I have no interest in supporting it and could careless what they do for how little they get paid.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

I am not about what the cruiser people and people who want the lifestyle want, that's why I don't mind sending those people toward MSF. If someone I liked chose to learn, I would point them in what I would consider a more appropriate direction that would get them on the street safely.

Everything, the course is too minimalistic. It's a very basic overview of motorcycle operation when one should expect a motorcycle street training course.

It's the instructors choice to continue this system. No one is forcing them out there. I have no interest in supporting it and could careless what they do for how little they get paid.

so whats your actual experience w/ the MSF? ever taken the class?

so where do you send them if not MSF?

crazy, it's called teh BASIC rider course (BRC)

not understanding this "continue the system", there are yearly updates, not that basic riding changes alot.

most courses are aligned w/ the state riding test and the testing criteria is set by the state.

going outside the parameter's set by the state would mean jeopordizing your license.

the reality is that the test MSF gives at the end of the course is way harder then the state riding test, at least in TX. and i would guess most states.

we made $425 for a weekend, and many places are short inst. cuz for many it's not worth the time, it wasn't for me last yr, so i didn't teach any last yr. so i'm not even sure if i'm still an inst. since you have to teach 1-2 yr to keep up your certification.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by RACER X

....that link is useless, the one derf put up is better...

The one he posted was regarding ABS, but contained one small paragraph about riders taking a course. The one I posted was all about how rider courses do not decrease claims.

...sportbike riders are the minority in class. cuz young guys already know everything........lol or don't make it a priority vs a cool bike.

before texas mandated MSF to get a license, the road course could be go down the street and back.....hard i know. if you think MSF class is weaksauce, you outta see the state tests.....lol

Not in CA. The DMV test is harder. You basically have to go 2mph around cones and make figure 8s. One foot down and you fail.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

Not in CA. The DMV test is harder. You basically have to go 2mph around cones and make figure 8s. One foot down and you fail.

MSF you have to
1) make a fig. 8 in a box.
a) demonstrate a swerve (after exiting the fig 8), w/ a specific speed
3) quick stop from a specific speed also downshifting from 2nd to 1st
4) make it thru 2 turns w/o going outside the lines at a specific speed, slow look press and roll and technique is critiqued.

thru the test, points are being taken off for "doing it wrong", putting your foot down in the box, taking to long to stop, crossing the lines in the corner.

only way to fail automatically is touch the bike down, crash or run over an inst.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Trip

I am not about what the cruiser people and people who want the lifestyle want, that's why I don't mind sending those people toward MSF. ....

What is the difference between riding a cruiser or sportbike on the street if you are doing the speed limit? I'll answer..nothing, which is exactly what the MSF targets: street riding.

If a sportbiker wishes to go faster and learn how to lean farther/hang off, then take a track school. If you want to wheelie then take a wheelie school.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

so whats your actual experience w/ the MSF? ever taken the class?

so where do you send them if not MSF?

crazy, it's called teh BASIC rider course (BRC)

not understanding this "continue the system", there are yearly updates, not that basic riding changes alot.

most courses are aligned w/ the state riding test and the testing criteria is set by the state.

going outside the parameter's set by the state would mean jeopordizing your license.

the reality is that the test MSF gives at the end of the course is way harder then the state riding test, at least in TX. and i would guess most states.

we made $425 for a weekend, and many places are short inst. cuz for many it's not worth the time, it wasn't for me last yr, so i didn't teach any last yr. so i'm not even sure if i'm still an inst. since you have to teach 1-2 yr to keep up your certification.

I took the BRC because I didn't know anyone to teach me. Then I about killed myself on the street til I found someone to actually teach me to ride on the street.

There really isn't a better place to send people in the states. That's why I send people I don't care to teach (which is pretty much everyone) to MSF.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

I took the BRC because I didn't know anyone to teach me. Then I about killed myself on the street til I found someone to actually teach me to ride on the street.

There really isn't a better place to send people in the states. That's why I send people I don't care to teach (which is pretty much everyone) to MSF.

ok, so was that MSF's fault or yours? i took MSF (having never ridden before) and rode to work MON after class thru rush hour traffic and home in the rain. crashing 8000mi later, still in my first yr of riding. and i chalk it up to MSF teaching me good basic skills. i crashed cuz i was riding stupidly on the streets. and had no rider friends before starting to ride to "teach me", nor really any after taking MSF. just peeps i ran the streets w/, but none gave me any real pointers.

so where do you send people who you "do care about" if not MSF, and since you don't teach?