Never Mind the Giant Flat-Screen TV...

[Tmall]

The lovely chateau in the background is where I spent the first eight years of my life. The second place we lived was a bit nicer. Aspenite walls and plywood floors were quite chic in the 90's. Welfare meant lots of hand me down clothes and macaroni for meals.

I kind of wish I was inner city. I would have had the oppurtunity to work. We had no car and no public transport. The nearest place to even consider a job was 30-40 minutes away by car. But, I've never been in trouble with the law. And I'd work at McDonalds before I would be that poor again.

[wildchild]

actually it was places like this. no fancy white sneakers, or designer jeans.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by azoomm

Many do. More than many do. Those are the ones that don't make the news..

I know, but we seem to be a depressing minority

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Tmall

The lovely chateau in the background is where I spent the first eight years of my life. The second place we lived was a bit nicer. Aspenite walls and plywood floors were quite chic in the 90's. Welfare meant lots of hand me down clothes and macaroni for meals.

I kind of wish I was inner city. I would have had the oppurtunity to work. We had no car and no public transport. The nearest place to even consider a job was 30-40 minutes away by car. But, I've never been in trouble with the law. And I'd work at McDonalds before I would be that poor again.

So you guys got out of that one using the proper keynesian method of charging everything to credit cards and then applying to new cards to cover that debt, so on so on etc. Correct? Cause god knows no other method could possibly work

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by wildchild

it doesn't mean anything about the whites having rich parents. how many educational grants are available right now? might not get you into Harvard but it will sure as heel get you into a school so you can make you own destiny begin.

I think actually you and I would agree on this in this manner. I agree everyone on the dole would love to have a 3 bedroom 2 bath house with a 2 car garage -- for free
i think they would all love to have two new cars -- for free
they would love to have a 6 figure a year job -- for free

they have the opportunities to go get those things but they lack the drive or "want" to go get them. as you said lazy. it's easier to be where they are then to bust their ass and get out.

we had an engineering manager that had grown up in the brownstones of Chicago. very poor run down neighborhood, no rich parents, no ivy league school but he decided to get out and he did.

on a side note I sent you a PM

Again, I know that it's possible to come from anywhere economically and succeed in this country. It's also possible to fail from anywhere...you have to concede that it is at least SLIGHTLY harder to become successful if you have to start from the gutter, with crap parents, from a crap neighborhood with crappy schools, etc. I mean do you really mean to say that I, for example had exactly the same opportunities as John Du Pont? He threw it all away but you see my point, right?

Look fellas, I agree that there are oportunities in this country to succeed if you have the drive, intelligence, talent, etc BUT please don't tell me that you all honestly believe that everyone in this country has the same opportunities... Seriously, are you all that naive? Yes I know, you can point out 10, 100, 1000, 10000 examples of people that managed to get themselves out of poverty but I can show you millions of people that are still living below that line. Are they ALL lazy good for nothings? It has nothing to do with the sub-standard schools? Entitlement legacy? Welfare state mentality? Is it really all just our fault?

[Tmall]

Ultimately? Yes..

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by wildchild

amber lamps really your skin is probably lighter then mine, (i am a mutt of some sort) I find it hard to believe you've felt the pain of the black man. like you said folks only know of your black heritage when you tell them.

have been on welfare? been homeless? lived in roach infested condemed buildings? had to go without food?

you look like you have a pretty good life for someone who is so oppressed for being black. hot white GF, nice bikes, lots of toys, money to spend. how did you get there? bust your ass or someone hand it to you?

Never said that "I" was oppressed, I actually don't truly believe in that. I just think that their situation tends to breed more poverty. I have grown up poor, lived in trailers, had terrible parents, (my mom got high and left town with some bikers leaving me alone and LOCKED OUT OF THE TRAILER when I was 4 yrs old), been homeless, been on welfare, food stamps, social security, donated plasma to buy food, went several years without a car, a motorcycle, heck, even a bicycle. I know all about scraping cans together to get the deposit to buy a couple packs of Ramen noodles or eating rice and beans 5 days a week.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Army, Navy, Air Force, National Guard... All four will take just about anybody. All you need is the motivation to do something. Barring crazy circumstances, there's no reason why ANY person can't pull themselves up out of poverty using those stepping stones.

Um...black people already make up about a third of the military now....BTW the military isn't quite as lask as it used to be. Besides, we tend to make that into a "meal ticket" as well. I wonder what the percentage of blacks pulling military disability is? I know quite a few... Heck, I work with a guy that gets $3,000/month from disablility because he was injured in boot camp. BOOT CAMP!!! He went to college on Uncle Sam on top of that... I never claimed that we don't use the system guys, I said that there must be reasons OTHER than we're just lazy.

[wildchild]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

Again, I know that it's possible to come from anywhere economically and succeed in this country. It's also possible to fail from anywhere...you have to concede that it is at least SLIGHTLY harder to become successful if you have to start from the gutter, with crap parents, from a crap neighborhood with crappy schools, etc. I mean do you really mean to say that I, for example had exactly the same opportunities as John Du Pont? He threw it all away but you see my point, right?

Look fellas, I agree that there are oportunities in this country to succeed if you have the drive, intelligence, talent, etc BUT please don't tell me that you all honestly believe that everyone in this country has the same opportunities... Seriously, are you all that naive? Yes I know, you can point out 10, 100, 1000, 10000 examples of people that managed to get themselves out of poverty but I can show you millions of people that are still living below that line. Are they ALL lazy good for nothings? It has nothing to do with the sub-standard schools? Entitlement legacy? Welfare state mentality? Is it really all just our fault?

harder? of course, but it doesn't mean the opps aren't there.

[wildchild]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

Never said that "I" was oppressed, I actually don't truly believe in that. I just think that their situation tends to breed more poverty. I have grown up poor, lived in trailers, had terrible parents, (my mom got high and left town with some bikers leaving me alone and LOCKED OUT OF THE TRAILER when I was 4 yrs old), been homeless, been on welfare, food stamps, social security, donated plasma to buy food, went several years without a car, a motorcycle, heck, even a bicycle. I know all about scraping cans together to get the deposit to buy a couple packs of Ramen noodles or eating rice and beans 5 days a week.

i only asked because you said "we" so much talking about the challenges