Teaching newbies to ride.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

the realty is that 92% of those "taught" indiv. crash, sure there is the 8% that don't. i'm sure once you get your wife outta the fields and off that 50, she'll be in the latter w/ your tutelage.

you think the program sucks, i think diff. so were debating it.
neither of us is going to change each others mind, we're just wasting time

I've crashed and I took the damn MSF. Most people crash, it's part of riding a motorcycle.

She's already crashed the fiddy, but that's definitely part of fiddy riding.

What do you think of Valentino Rossi? He isn't a MSF graduate.

[Amorok]

Yeah, it's a requirement to ride on base, so it's offered for free on base, I teach it for free but the military paid for me to get certified and any professional development seminars or other further training I get will be free for me. They really take the safety thing seriously, and so do I, that's why I got involved with it. The stuff I learned in the BRC and ERC has saved my life several times, and I'm pretty stoked that I can help other people out the same way.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Amorok

Trip, what would you add to an MSF course to make it better? Did you take the BRC or the sport bike course? The BRC is not designed to teach you advanced techniques, it's designed to let you practice the basic physical and mental skills needed to move a motorcycle around safely. Ever studentthat graduates my course gets contact information to several riding groups in the area to help further their training, and sport bike riders get information about track days and why they need to go to one. I don't think the MSF is perfect by any means, but it's the best course of it's type out there. If you can think of ways for me to improve it by all means, let me know. And as for the money, I teach it for free and don't get paid, I don't have an opinion about pricing. But if you're in my area, and you bring your bike I'll put you through a course on my range if you want.

Look at Europe training courses, it's not the best course out there of it's kind. It doesn't even prepare you to ride properly on the street. It's a parking lot course. It needs more of everything, but most Americans are unwilling to devote that much time and money that would be necessary.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Amorok

Yeah, it's a requirement to ride on base, so it's offered for free on base, I teach it for free but the military paid for me to get certified and any professional development seminars or other further training I get will be free for me. They really take the safety thing seriously, and so do I, that's why I got involved with it. The stuff I learned in the BRC and ERC has saved my life several times, and I'm pretty stoked that I can help other people out the same way.

it was like $100 for course material and a week of vaction time.

thats commitment to the cause to give up weekends to teach for free.

Originally Posted by Trip

It doesn't even prepare you to ride properly on the street. It's a parking lot course. It needs more of everything, but most Americans are unwilling to devote that much time and money that would be necessary.

did i mention i rode to class on sunday morn. , after having had the bike delivered to me sat. evening, and riding 100mi sat. night.

some people are ready after the class, some aren't.

and you are correct on part 2 of your comment. but i've also had foreign students (licensed in their home country) who wanted to get their license and were very impressed w/ the progress that students made over the course of the weekend.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

did i mention i rode to class on sunday morn. , after having had the bike delivered to me sat. evening, and riding 100mi sat. night.

some people are ready after the class, some aren't.

So did you illegally ride? If you have never ridden a bike before and didn't have your license, you were basically riding around with no license and no experience since the first day doesn't really bring you that far along.

That's great advice when complaining about people teaching their friends and family....

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

So did you illegally ride? If you have never ridden a bike before and didn't have your license, you were basically riding around with no license and no experience since the first day doesn't really bring you that far along.

That's great advice when complaining about people teaching their friends and family....

I'm sure places like Texas and Florida with their straight roads helps out too, negotiating tight and technical roads isn't an issue.

yup, rode illegal for the first week, till i took the DMV test sometime that week.

it is what it is.

or maybe it's a testament to how good the course material was, that taught me enough by end of day 1 to get around, i think i only stalled the bike 1x that night out.

generally by end day 1, starting, stopping, some basic cornering and emergancy braking are covered.

so when i got my bike sat. evening, my cousin who rides (cruisers vs my VFR800), came over, he test rode the bike, made sure it was alright. paid, then we went to deserted streets and practiced what i had learned from MSF for an hour or so, and took off riding. rode to class sun morn. and have been riding since.

and to set the record straight, i did ride my cousins cruiser around the grass, in a park for like 1 lap. hadn't ridden a motorized bike before that, not even dirtbikes or scooters. though i was riding/racing bicycles back then.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

yup, rode illegal for the first week, till i took the DMV test sometime that week.

it is what it is.

or maybe it's a testament to how good the course material was, that taught me enough by end of day 1 to get around, i think i only stalled the bike 1x that night out.

generally by end day 1, starting, stopping, some basic cornering and emergancy braking are covered.

so when i got my bike sat. evening, my cousin who rides (cruisers vs my VFR800), came over, he test rode the bike, made sure it was alright. paid, then we went to deserted streets and practiced what i had learned from MSF for an hour or so, and took off riding. rode to class sun morn. and have been riding since.

and to set the record straight, i did ride my cousins cruiser around the grass, in a park for like 1 lap. hadn't ridden a motorized bike before that, not even dirtbikes or scooters. though i was riding/racing bicycles back then.

LOL and you are complaining about me wanting more in depth training and training with friends. Basically you just forfeited all your debate. Win for me. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Nice to fuck up your arguments when you didn't even wait for the MSF to end, you got out there with your friends before you even finished the course. Thanks for admitting it.

[RACER X]

ok if you say so.

[Archren]

Originally Posted by Avatard

She has no aspirations to ride on the street. I have a little 100cc dirt bike she wants to try out. I'm certainly not enrolling her in a course. She very well may be one of those that has no business riding, hence my mentioning that in the OP...but I can tell she wishes she could conquer it.

Obviously, I would put her in full gear, and in a big grass field, with nothing to hit, for starters.

I was just wondering if anyone had any pointers for teaching the basics of controls, etc.

Gotcha. I think I'm tracking. Amorok made some good points (clutch/friction zone practice). I don't know how mechanically inclined she is, but a few times of letting her practice just the "routine" of getting the bike started will help, and work your way from there. Once she feels comfortable with a particular task, move on to the next, and then put it all together. Kinda like learning a new piece of music. You learn measure by measure, and then you put the measures together. But a sheet of music doesn't do you much good if you can't read the notes. Ok, I have no idea where I was going with that analogy, but I think I mean you may really have to break it down for her Barney style if she's as skittish as you make her sound. Once she feels confident with the small stuff, maybe it be easier for her to move on to the more complex things without as much chance of her freezing up if something goes awry.

You're much more patient person than I. While I learn things quickly, I have a hard time imparting that knowledge to others because once I learn something it's like it becomes intuitive/second nature to me... so when people don't "get it", I start to get frustrated. Good luck, hope it goes well.

[Amorok]

Originally Posted by Trip

Look at Europe training courses, it's not the best course out there of it's kind. It doesn't even prepare you to ride properly on the street. It's a parking lot course. It needs more of everything, but most Americans are unwilling to devote that much time and money that would be necessary.

What specific European courses are you referring to? Is there a company or curriculum you can refer me to? Give me some referencesa and not only will I see whether it can be integrated into my course, I'll send it up to MSF.

As for it being a "parking lot" course, yes it is. Low speed practice is safer for beginners, and it's a proven fact that low-speed practice will improve higher-speed skill. The point of the BRC/ERC is not to teach someone how to roar down the twisties, wear out a trail on a dirt bike or destroy the track, the point is to teach someone how to get on their bike and ride to work or somewhere else. The point of MSF is to teach people how to ride safely in the most common situations such as commuting or a weekend cruise. If you want to go out and ride like a bat out of hell on a sport bike then MSF won't help you accomplish that. It doesn't mean the course doesn't meet anyone's needs, just that it doesn't meet your needs.