8.9 Earthquake hits Japan

[Trip]

Engineering is a little different in the nuclear world in the USA. We get paid more than you non nuke folks, but we put up with a ton more paperwork. We are encouraged to whistle blow since TMI. This culture doesn't seem to be encouraged in Japan though.

Originally Posted by goof2

If my understanding of the accident at Chernobyl is correct it serves as a good example. Yes, in order to save money, time, whatever that reactor didn't have a containment vessel designed to prevent the release of radiation in case of a meltdown (storing spent fuel rods outside the containment vessel at the Japanese reactors may prove to have been a similar mistake). In order for the lack of a containment vessel to become a problem though it took days worth of operational errors, terrible decision making, institutional arrogance, and terrible training compounding upon itself. Of course it is with the benefit of hindsight, but looking at a timeline of Chernobyl it seems as if one or two more good decisions at almost any point could have prevented the meltdown in the first place.

The major issue with Chernobyl was management direction to perform idiotic tests on the turbine/reactor that shouldn't have been performed.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Trip

The major issue with Chernobyl was management direction to perform idiotic tests on the turbine/reactor that shouldn't have been performed.

OK, and that is where I understood the poor decision making started. My understanding though is that this was compounded by a ton of other decisions which led to the eventual meltdown. In my, again, amateur view there were a number of points further along the chain of events where one or two better decisions could have also averted the meltdown.

As an example, from what I understand there was an unusual demand for power at the time when management had scheduled the test requiring the test to be delayed. By the time they could run the test the workers who had been trained to perform the test had been replaced by another shift. Instead of waiting for a time when the trained staff returned, management decided to run the the dangerous and unnecessary test with untrained staff. That untrained staff ended up making further mistakes that allowed the meltdown.

We both agree that if the management hadn't run the test in the first place there wouldn't have been a meltdown at that point. We probably both agree that using staff trained for the test would have significantly reduced the chances of a meltdown. While the decision to run the test may have been the root cause of the meltdown, it didn't guarantee one. The meltdown required further mistakes building on top of one another in order to happen.

I realize I'm couching a lot of what I say with qualifiers, but it is necessary since I am in no way qualified to make definitive statements about any of this.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by goof2

OK, and that is where I understood the poor decision making started. My understanding though is that this was compounded by a ton of other decisions which led to the eventual meltdown. In my, again, amateur view there were a number of points further along the chain of events where one or two better decisions could have also averted the meltdown.

As an example, from what I understand there was an unusual demand for power at the time when management had scheduled the test requiring the test to be delayed. By the time they could run the test the workers who had been trained to perform the test had been replaced by another shift. Instead of waiting for a time when the trained staff returned, management decided to run the the dangerous and unnecessary test with untrained staff. That untrained staff ended up making further mistakes that allowed the meltdown.

We both agree that if the management hadn't run the test in the first place there wouldn't have been a meltdown at that point. We probably both agree that using staff trained for the test would have significantly reduced the chances of a meltdown. While the decision to run the test may have been the root cause of the meltdown, it didn't guarantee one. The meltdown required further mistakes building on top of one another in order to happen.

I realize I'm couching a lot of what I say with qualifiers, but it is necessary since I am in no way qualified to make definitive statements about any of this.

There is always a chain of events and lessons learned beyond the root cause, but the root cause is management being douchers.

[EpyonXero]

Great explanation of whats going on with the reactors.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?ref=asia

[tallywacker]

Well the reactors aren't the only issue. The spent rod pools don't have any water.

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by EpyonXero

Great explanation of whats going on with the reactors.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?ref=asia

pretty neat graphic explanation

of course, I only know about as much as I learned in college physics and stuff

[Trip]

We got a briefing today. There are a lot of wtf were they doing questions.

[Trip]

Things look extremely grim. Spent fuel pool of #4 is dry. This looks to be getting very very ugly.

[tallywacker]

Originally Posted by Trip

Things look extremely grim. Spent fuel pool of #4 is dry. This looks to be getting very very ugly.

It's been dry since yesterday.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by tallywacker

It's been dry since yesterday.

I don't follow speculation. NRC reported it today.