Gun Thread

[marko138]

Originally Posted by Hydrant

Just picked up a Springfield Armory XD 40 Sub-Compact with a 3" barrel

Nice.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by Rider

They have them here. In white unmarked boxes. Usually in boxes off 100+.

Wierd, since we don't have a lot of weapons that use that round anymore. I think the M14 still uses it, as does the M240B, and the M60 used to. With the 240 and the 60, though, the ammo would be linked, which doesn't translate well to surplus sales.

[Inferno]

This is what I am talking about...get your hands on what is available. .22 LRM or 9mm, or 5.56 .223 Rem

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Mikey

Wierd, since we don't have a lot of weapons that use that round anymore. I think the M14 still uses it, as does the M240B, and the M60 used to. With the 240 and the 60, though, the ammo would be linked, which doesn't translate well to surplus sales.

It's still used as a sniper round.

['73 H1 Triple]

Originally Posted by Rider

Yes but a 7.62 x 51 is not exactly the same as a .308 from some of the gun forums I've been on. I've heard that damage could be done to your rifle using the surplus 7.62.x 51 rounds in a .308 rifle. Is this in fact true or is it safe to use them?

Although the dimensions of the 7.62 x 51 NATO round are virtually identical to the .308 Winchester round, the 7.62 x 51 are loaded to a higher SAMMI spec ( chamber pressure )

What kind of firearm are you thinking of shooting the 7.62 x 51 round in? What kind of shape is it in?

[Adeptus_Minor]

Originally Posted by Mikey

I see. I've always been fine with FMJs in a rifle like that, but have heard of some ranges not allowing it. I have to be honest, if the range isn't safe for FMJ ammo, I would likely have serious concerns about their setup anyway. It's never really been an issue for me because I spend very little time at actual ranges. Having lots of open desert is nice sometimes.

They have plenty of high berms and such, but they are in a populated valley area. Frankly, it's the best setup within reasonable driving distance (for the price).
Trust me, if I had some open land available to me anywhere close, I'd ditch the range in a heartbeat.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by Rider

Yes but a 7.62 x 51 is not exactly the same as a .308 from some of the gun forums I've been on. I've heard that damage could be done to your rifle using the surplus 7.62.x 51 rounds in a .308 rifle. Is this in fact true or is it safe to use them?

The issue is neither external brass dimensions (which are identical)
nor pressure specs (SAMMI specs for the .308 are 62K CUP,
for the Nato 7.62 are 58K). The issues are twofold: the
greater thickness of military brass vs commercial (military
is thicker, allowing for much case flowing of shot cases),
and the headspace allowance of the NATO chambers vs the .013"shorter headspace allowance for the .308.

Shooting fresh (unreloaded) 7.62 ammo in a sporter .308 will cause no
ill effects; trying to chamber reloaded military brass that has not
been full-resized (not just neck sized) will cause headspace problems, blown cases and all manner of bad things.

The guys that reload 7.62 brass without full-length resizing for .308
are the ones who have issues. Regular sizing dies for the .308 are neck-sizing only, you have to buy a special full-length carbide resizing die to get full length resizing on the 7.62.

I recently watched a fellow trying to close the action of a very new, very nice and expensive customized FN TSR XP on some reloaded 7.62 ammo (baggie brand); he was using a wooden mallet to hammer the bolt closed. After firing the one round the action seized and even with the intrepid fellow slamming the bolt handle on the side of the table he was unable to get it open again.

We breathed a collective sigh of relief when he packed up and left.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by '73 H1 Triple

Although the dimensions of the 7.62 x 51 NATO round are virtually identical to the .308 Winchester round, the 7.62 x 51 are loaded to a higher SAMMI spec ( chamber pressure )

What kind of firearm are you thinking of shooting the 7.62 x 51 round in? What kind of shape is it in?

Fairly new Savage rifle model 11. Probably had 3-20rd boxes fired through it.

[fnfalman]

This is my personal experience, so take it for what it is.

I have yet to have successfully blasted 5.56/7.62NATO ammo (not reloads) through my .223/.308 rifles. Every time I tried, within a round or two possibly three at most, the brass would swell and stuck in the chamber. I literally had to kick the bolt handle back to extract. This happened with good quality surplus GI ammo or First World surplus ammo and not Russian/Chinese steel case ammo.

.223 and .308 on the other hand; even reloads (quality reloads from people who knew what they're doing), went through my military semiautos just fine.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

This is my personal experience, so take it for what it is.

I have yet to have successfully blasted 5.56/7.62NATO ammo (not reloads) through my .223/.308 rifles. Every time I tried, within a round or two possibly three at most, the brass would swell and stuck in the chamber. I literally had to kick the bolt handle back to extract. This happened with good quality surplus GI ammo or First World surplus ammo and not Russian/Chinese steel case ammo.

.223 and .308 on the other hand; even reloads (quality reloads from people who knew what they're doing), went through my military semiautos just fine.

And this is the headspace issue I was talking about. If you have an exceptionally tight chamber, as the rifle heats up you may have issues with chambering. I've had .308's that would shoot 7.62 with no issues. If you are experiencing issues with chambering, don't use the 7.62 ammo. On the other hand, .308's in 7.62 rifles, especially those that have been reloaded, have a history of head separations in SOME rifles,as the overly generous 7.62 go/nogo chamber dimensions caused excessive thinning of the already thin .308 brass at the base IN SOME RIFLES, causing separations and/or blowouts.

Due to manufacturing tolerances, every chamber is going to be slightly different; depending on how the chamber go/nogo tolerances between the .308 and the 7.62 overlap on your specific rifle. Your .308 rifle may not work with certain ammo. The 7.62 chamber tolerances were set generous for a reason; so that they could shoot a variety of ammo found at hand from different manufactures in different NATO countries. Sporter .308 dimensions are tighter, allowing for less tolerance to specific ammo, especially reloads. That's just the way it is.

If your .308 rifle won't digest 7.62 ammo, hot or cold... don't use it. If you are shooting .308's in a 7.62, watch for base thinning. You may even want to mic a couple of fired cases to see how much case stretch you are getting. Much beyond .007-8 and you are getting into case failure range.