Touqe or Bhp

[TommyHotWheel]

Tq=E.T.
Hp=mph...which do you want?

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Tmall

No, my rational is this. Torque is the twisting force that turns your wheels. That is what you feel every single time you step on the accelerator. You never feel hp. Ever. All you feel is the torque being applied over a time period. Torque begins to drop off because the engine starts to lose efficiency. The air pump isn't working as it should, because it is beyond the point where it can effectively draw in air/fuel, while clearing the exhaust gases effectively.

That is where you get your horsepower. It is a measure of how efficiently your torque can be continued to be used.

Torque is calculated as is HP. So...arguing one is "more real" than the other is simply assinine. You can measure FORCE and you can measure DISTANCE, but you cannot measure torque. You calculate torque by measuring the FORCE multiplied by the distance to the piviot arm at which the force is being applied. Same is with HP, calculated.

And for the record, torque is not relevant as much as is the POWER, which takes into account how much of the torque can be applied over a unit of time. 660lb-ft of torque is worthless if you only see it for 0.5 seconds.

Amatuers...LOL

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

And for the record, torque is not relevant as much as is the POWER, which takes into account how much of the torque can be applied over a unit of time. 660lb-ft of torque is worthless if you only see it for 0.5 seconds.

Amatuers...LOL

Truth. It's all about area under the curve, bitches

If something has gobs of torque at only 1,000 rpm but the redline is only 2,000, then your total area under the curve is pretty much shit. Yeah, you could add tons of extra gears to get it up to speed, but I hope you enjoy lots of shifting and lots of weight as well.

[Tmall]

So, what about the 2 speed y2k bike? It has enough tq to only need two long gears.


101, nobody said hp doesn't exist, I'm saying hp is just tq over and over again. There's no denying this.

Its the chicken and egg argument, except its "what came first, the cow or the steak?" when its obvious the cow had to be there to produce the steak.

[Phenix_Rider]

Originally Posted by Tmall

So, what about the 2 speed y2k bike? It has enough tq to only need two long gears.


101, nobody said hp doesn't exist, I'm saying hp is just tq over and over again. There's no denying this.

Its the chicken and egg argument, except its "what came first, the cow or the steak?" when its obvious the cow had to be there to produce the steak.

Again, they're different but one is not better than the other. What do you call torque that isn't free to move?

Jet engines are NOT about torque. They have insanely long redlines- which is why the Y2K only has two gears. The torque isn't very high, but it's level across the RPM range, and the revs just keep on going- adding up to gobs of power. That engine has to be geared WAY down to be useful when it's connected to a shaft. The turbine/compressor spins very very fast, which is how it moves enough air to make power. (suck squeeze bang blow)

(Current) Electrics are all about torque, but it's all at low RPMs. They accelerate fast, and then hit a wall. Which is part of the reason the TTXGP racers barely beat a 50cc IC record. The purpose built "fun" race bikes got up to speed insanely fast, but fried the motors when the current draw overheated everything. You can do all kinds of fun things to improve RPM range directly at the motor (without a trans), but it ain't cheap or reliable (yet).

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

Again, they're different but one is not better than the other. What do you call torque that isn't free to move?

Jet engines are NOT about torque. They have insanely long redlines- which is why the Y2K only has two gears. The torque isn't very high, but it's level across the RPM range, and the revs just keep on going- adding up to gobs of power. That engine has to be geared WAY down to be useful when it's connected to a shaft. The turbine/compressor spins very very fast, which is how it moves enough air to make power. (suck squeeze bang blow)

(Current) Electrics are all about torque, but it's all at low RPMs. They accelerate fast, and then hit a wall. Which is part of the reason the TTXGP racers barely beat a 50cc IC record. The purpose built "fun" race bikes got up to speed insanely fast, but fried the motors when the current draw overheated everything. You can do all kinds of fun things to improve RPM range directly at the motor (without a trans), but it ain't cheap or reliable (yet).

The torque of the y2k is insane. 425 ft/lbs at 2000rpm. http://www.bikez.com/bike/index.php?bike=20204


That is why it's a 2 speed. It could rev to 100k rpm, if it's not making any tq, it's not going anywhere in a hurry. Our marine gas turbine make 25000hp at about 9500rpm or so. If the calculations are the same for both type of engines, that`s an assload of tq...

I just want to reiterate here. I understand horsepower is a measure of the work done by tq and rpms. I would also like to point out that tq that is not free to move is still tq. The object being acted upon is just exerting an equal force to have a total net force of zero. But, you are still applying tq.

So again, hp is nothing without tq. But, since we`re talking about engines, and they have to have rpm to operate, then hp is completely and totally dependant on tq. You feel the tq moving you. The hp is just a measure of how much of that tq is being applied at a given rpm.

[mutley]

Need to do short hand to keep up. but me it long stroke = torque short = hp but thay coexest so the soluiton is just part of the problem ?

[Phenix_Rider]

Originally Posted by mutley

Need to do short hand to keep up. but me it long stroke = torque short = hp but thay coexest so the soluiton is just part of the problem ?

:leaving thread for dead:

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Tmall

.... So again, hp is nothing without tq. But, since we`re talking about engines, and they have to have rpm to operate, then hp is completely and totally dependant on tq. You feel the tq moving you. The hp is just a measure of how much of that tq is being applied at a given rpm.

What does HP is nothing without torque mean? Dude they are both calculated numbers based off of FORCE. HP and torque are nothing without FORCE I guess would make more sense. For some reason you are amazed that say diesel engines can create more FORCE than a gas engine at the same RPM. This is simply because diesel fuel burns slower and contains more energy.

Force, distance and time are the elements.

[mutley]

So im saying that if i set my enging up for more torque as much as i can pulling from say 3rd gear should not be a problem yes/no.