Resistance was futile....

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Trip

Again, how is your fun any greater than someone who thinks manual is work and has just as much fun in a auto? The fun factor is the EXACT SAME. Your fun is no greater than someone who has fun in an auto.

I'm with you on the argument, after all, I have a semiautomatic (paddles) in my BMW. And, it's just as "fun" as a stick. And, doesn't suck ass if I get stuck in traffic.

[KSGregman]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I'm with you on the argument, after all, I have a semiautomatic (paddles) in my BMW. And, it's just as "fun" as a stick. And, doesn't suck ass if I get stuck in traffic.

I'm fully in the "don't knock it until you've tried it" camp....so.....I've no opinion on a paddle shift transmission...never driven a car set up that way. I just know that a full auto leaves me cold.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Trip, you been riding that BMW so long your actually thinking like a German! Not everything can be quantified and engineered for. Fun cannot be defined, so let those with insight into that speak for itself. Standards will exist because some "get it" just as cruisers, hack pthooey, will be enjoyed by folks that appreciate them. There is not right or wrong here.

Uh, then why are you guys using fun factor as a decisive factor? I said fun is fun, I didn't give it a specific value, I said it's the same for someone who enjoys cruising slowly in an auto sportscar as someone who enjoys the manual control of a manual sportscar. The fun is the same for both people.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by KSGregman

I'm fully in the "don't knock it until you've tried it" camp....so.....I've no opinion on a paddle shift transmission...never driven a car set up that way. I just know that a full auto leaves me cold.

They're ok on accel, suck balls on decel. I've driven a few that won't let you shift down within 4000 rpm of redline.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Trip

Uh, then why are you guys using fun factor as a decisive factor? I said fun is fun, I didn't give it a specific value, I said it's the same for someone who enjoys cruising slowly in an auto sportscar as someone who enjoys the manual control of a manual sportscar. The fun is the same for both people.

Assume the guy in the auto car has never had the opportunity to drive anything else, is his ignorance of potential fun still a valid choice?

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Dave

Assume the guy in the auto car has never had the opportunity to drive anything else, is his ignorance of potential fun still a valid choice?

Yes, he is still having fun. The same amount of fun you get from your driving. A lot of cruiser riders have never taken the opportunity to ride sportbikes and vice versa. Both are still having equal amounts of fun. Fun factor helps neither side.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Trip

Uh, then why are you guys using fun factor as a decisive factor?

Because ultimately, that is the factor that brings happiness, reward, and positive feedback. The joy with which you drive your car, for most people, their second largest investment, is paramount.

Watch the American Top Gear episode where they test 3 Lambos; the Top End Murcielago, with AWD, and computer everyfuckingthing, the Balboni (RWD, pure driver car), and the Superleggera. The most powerful model, the one designed by the Lambo test driver that's driven every single car made, and the super-lightweight.

Overall, the light car won (anyone with an understanding of basic physics probably guessed that right), the most powerful car was next fastest, and the RWD Balboni, which although it was a great drifter, was the slowest.

When they interviewed everyone, and asked them which one they wanted, they all said the Balboni.

That should tell you something.

There was also a UK Top Gear episode, where they compared a few cars to a rarified Alfa, which this time was among the most expensive, and yet the slowest...but again at the end, was the car that everyone called pure sex, appealed to their every sense, and they ultimately just plain wanted to own.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Dave

Assume the guy in the auto car has never had the opportunity to drive anything else, is his ignorance of potential fun still a valid choice?

That.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Because ultimately, that is the factor that brings happiness, reward, and positive feedback. The joy with which you drive your car, for most people, their second largest investment, is paramount.

Watch the American Top Gear episode where they test 3 Lambos; the Top End Murcielago, with AWD, and computer everyfuckingthing, the Balboni (RWD, pure driver car), and the Superleggera. The most powerful model, the one designed by the Lambo test driver that's driven every single car made, and the super-lightweight.

Overall, the light car won (anyone with an understanding of basic physics probably guessed that right), the most powerful car was next fastest, and the RWD Balboni, which although it was a great drifter, was the slowest.

When they interviewed everyone, and asked them which one they wanted, they all said the Balboni.

That should tell you something.

There was also a UK Top Gear episode, where they compared a few cars to a rarified Alfa, which this time was among the most expensive, and yet the slowest...but again at the end, was the car that everyone called pure sex, appealed to their every sense, and they ultimately just plain wanted to own.

Yes, the three guys on top gear represent everyone... Good sample population of the average driver. There are a lot of people that aren't speed demons or want to go fast or do the things that you consider fun, but they still want to own a sportscar. I know that is extremely hard for you to understand, but these people do exist and it good size numbers. A lot of sportscars also fall into 'Luxury' category. So people want the appearance of luxury and may not ever use that power.

Is their fun any less than yours? FUCK NO.

Originally Posted by Avatard

That.

Review the cruiser vs sportbike, that's moot.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Yet that Mazda 2 still has more road feel than 95% of anything America builds.

You mean noise, bumps and harshness? Then yes it does.