ATF Running Guns

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

How exactly can a gov't agency force a dealer to sell to someone?

BTW, I would suspect that conservatives would be more likely to cover up a story like this than liberals would. Conservatives are the ones who always stick up for law enforcement.

Administrations covering their asses isn't a conservative or liberal trait, it is a government trait.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by goof2

Administrations covering their asses isn't a conservative or liberal trait, it is a government trait.

Agreed! For clarity sake it appears that on a much smaller scale of this operation where the guns we stopped at the border began in the last year of the Bush administration.
Again based on what is being presented by both ends of the Media it appears that under our current administration, the ATF allowed Thousands of guns to be bought Illegally here in the United States, enter Mexico, where all ability to trace them was lost (again no investigative value) and in one case the weapon re entered the US where is was used to Kill an ICE agent.
There needs to be a Special Prosecutor, because Holder is ultimately the Chief of the ATF.

[Papa_Complex]

Funny, but I don't tend to see this sort of outrage when police permit drugs to pass on down the line, so that they can track the flow and determine everyone who is involved in trafficking.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Funny, but I don't tend to see this sort of outrage when police permit drugs to pass on down the line, so that they can track the flow and determine everyone who is involved in trafficking.

While I agree, that we here in States have a VERY Hypocritical view of drug culture, (Hell we are the only country on the planet to turn Drug running into a Competitive "Sport" NASCAR)
The Issue for me is two fold. First as a member of the fire arms community that enjoys building fire arms as well as shooting sport. I will say that we have been routinely vilified by this administration. They have been been very vocal in calling for more regulation, (yesterday they called for more in depth background checks citing the shootings in Arizona, completely ignoring the fact that ATF had instructed J&G of AZ sales to sell lots of 10 AKs at time to on 6 occasions to the same known cartel buyers). While they completely ignore the ones they have.
The other outrage and the one that is most infuriating is that Holder is not being held Accountable. This is rather like asking John Mitchel to investigate the Watergate Break In. Holder is the over all Chief of the Agency that apparently Committed these crimes.
Again I say appoint a Special Prosecutor, lets get a thorough investigation from someone outside of the Justice Department and the Current Administration to look this over.
The actions of whoever came up with the plan to let thousands of guns cross the border into Mexico has gotten people killed on both sides of the border.
I can not imagine how the US/Canadian Press would be treating this if these weapons had been allowed into Canada.

[Papa_Complex]

Breaking News: Guns have been getting into Canada, illegally, and killing people for decades.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...76-torsun.html

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Breaking News: Guns have been getting into Canada, illegally, and killing people for decades.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...76-torsun.html

Not breaking news, The ATF routinely sends alerts to shops in the along the Canadian Border with who and what they might be trying to buy to licensed dealers. It is routine for a dealer to be told when doing a background check not to allow a sale to go through if it is even hinted the the end user is Canadian. Also the press here in the US and Canada does a great job of pointing out when it happens. Oh and for the record the US sucks at reporting it when a gun Originating in Canada is used in a crime here in the US. (in the northeast about 1 in every 7500 crime guns) Again regardless of what side of the Gun Argument you are on, the Primary Agency here in the US responsible for keeping the Guns out of the hands of criminals Facilitated the MASS sale of Kalashnikov's AR 15's and assorted handguns to drug gangs. (These were not weapons tagged with GPS so that they could be traced or in any manner controlled) When the the firearms dealers tried to stop the sales they were told to let sales go through. Papa what would you be saying if the ATF ordered that Gun Dealer sell Canadian Gangs hundreds of what is routinely characterized as Assault Rifles and hundreds of Handguns told Us Border Agents to allow the weapons to cross in to Canada and never informed any Canadian Law Enforcement.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

Not breaking news,

It was sarcasm

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

It was sarcasm

I know, it was sarcasm, but it raises a a point well worth illustrating.
If this had gone on with US Law enforcement Agency actively allowing Canadian Criminals to import a thousand illegal guns into Canada Citizens on both sides of the border would be outraged, as they should be.
Where is that outrage in this situation? Are Mexican Lives worth less than Canadian or US lives.
Why are US citizens allowing the Ultimate Chief of the Agency that did this to head the investigation?
Again whether you are a Total Gun Control Believer or an Advocate for Second Amendment Rights what was done was Un-conscienceable!
Allowing the Chief of the Agency that did it and expecting anything like an unbiased result is silly, There needs to be Special Prosecutor

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

I know, it was sarcasm, but it raises a a point well worth illustrating.
If this had gone on with US Law enforcement Agency actively allowing Canadian Criminals to import a thousand illegal guns into Canada Citizens on both sides of the border would be outraged, as they should be.
Where is that outrage in this situation? Are Mexican Lives worth less than Canadian or US lives.
Why are US citizens allowing the Ultimate Chief of the Agency that did this to head the investigation?
Again whether you are a Total Gun Control Believer or an Advocate for Second Amendment Rights what was done was Un-conscienceable!
Allowing the Chief of the Agency that did it and expecting anything like an unbiased result is silly, There needs to be Special Prosecutor

And another question: How do you know where the guns are going, if you don't let them get there?

The same sort of tactic is used in tracking shipments of hard drugs. I ask again, why no outrage? While they may not kill someone with the obvious finality and immediacy of a bullet, they still kill.

[Homeslice]

Again, how can a gov't agency force a store/dealer to do business with someone? Not saying it can't happen, but..... Please describe the scenario.