Boxing

[jalaan1]

i like MMA much more than boxing.
boxing nowadays is just eh, for me.
but i must say i did see the Shane Mosley fight over the weekend and it was pretty good. before that, i can't remember the last time i watched boxing.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Flexin

I was watching a think on Frank Shamrock last night or the night before and it was showing some of this fights. It also showed a quick interview. I'm not sure when it as taken but he was talking about how he was learning more Boxing and Kick Boxing because that was where the sport was going. He said he was still going to practice his ground work but winning with striking was more exciting.

James

What wins in MMA will always be cyclical. I could take the cheap shot and say that Frank Shamrock hasn't had a meaningful win in a few years (oops, I did), but he's got half the answer right. Boxing or Kick Boxing may be where the sport is going (though I have my reasons I believe he's wrong), but it wouldn't be a long term thing at all. A good, technical, well rounded fighter is going to have tools from a lot of different areas to give him as many options for securing victory as is possible. It wouldn't be surprising to see someone who is trained at various levels in boxing, kickboxing, or judo (for example) to not only have an effective stand up striking game, but to recognize and react to another fighters strikes. Same with having a mix of wrestling and jiu-jitsu to be able to attack and defend with a well rounded ground game. The time of one dimensional fighters who have one trick up their sleeve is coming to an end. So while a shift on boxing and kickboxing may be in the winds, I think it's more of a search for additional tools to give a fighter an edge in a field where almost all fighters are trained in multiple disciplines. If something works and is shown to be effective, it'll be just a matter of time before the rest of the competition trains in the same skill sets and the field starts to level again. The strong, proficient fighters will always float to the top, while the fighters who make strides by having one particular talent in something not seen will fall back to the bottom or middle as it becomes more common.

[OneSickPsycho]

I watched a good boxing match last night... Two guys I never heard of... each knocked the other down in like the third round... the one guy tattooed the other guy for the rest of the fight, knocking him down multiple times and finally his corner threw in the towel. It was exciting.

That's the one thing I don't like about boxing these days... Most of the best fighters these days do more dancing around, running, and leaning on the other guy. Yeah, strategy, technique, etc... boring. That's the beauty of MMA... You can't do too much running cause eventually someone's going to take you down or kick you in the face. More options = less yawn time... That is of course, if you can understand the difficulty involved in the ground game.

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

I watched a good boxing match last night... Two guys I never heard of... each knocked the other down in like the third round... the one guy tattooed the other guy for the rest of the fight, knocking him down multiple times and finally his corner threw in the towel. It was exciting.

That's the one thing I don't like about boxing these days... Most of the best fighters these days do more dancing around, running, and leaning on the other guy. Yeah, strategy, technique, etc... boring. That's the beauty of MMA... You can't do too much running cause eventually someone's going to take you down or kick you in the face. More options = less yawn time... That is of course, if you can understand the difficulty involved in the ground game.

I have to disagree. Some fighters run in both sports. Its not the sport its the fighter. But others use movement to create angles. And in MMA a fighter will go for a take down in most cases because he is lacking in skill when it comes to striking or at least not as skilled as the man in front of him.

And as far as ground work goes, its fine if they are working. But a lot of fighters will lay there and not do anything. Sometimes they are trying to catch there breath. This is just like the clinch in Boxing. But in Boxing they will pull you a part quick. I see some refs are doing this in MMA if they are not trying to fight, which is a good thing.

James

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by Corey

What wins in MMA will always be cyclical. I could take the cheap shot and say that Frank Shamrock hasn't had a meaningful win in a few years (oops, I did), but he's got half the answer right. Boxing or Kick Boxing may be where the sport is going (though I have my reasons I believe he's wrong), but it wouldn't be a long term thing at all. A good, technical, well rounded fighter is going to have tools from a lot of different areas to give him as many options for securing victory as is possible. It wouldn't be surprising to see someone who is trained at various levels in boxing, kickboxing, or judo (for example) to not only have an effective stand up striking game, but to recognize and react to another fighters strikes. Same with having a mix of wrestling and jiu-jitsu to be able to attack and defend with a well rounded ground game. The time of one dimensional fighters who have one trick up their sleeve is coming to an end. So while a shift on boxing and kickboxing may be in the winds, I think it's more of a search for additional tools to give a fighter an edge in a field where almost all fighters are trained in multiple disciplines. If something works and is shown to be effective, it'll be just a matter of time before the rest of the competition trains in the same skill sets and the field starts to level again. The strong, proficient fighters will always float to the top, while the fighters who make strides by having one particular talent in something not seen will fall back to the bottom or middle as it becomes more common.

They have been tying to be more well rounded for a long time. Thats not going to change in that sport. But there are a lot of fighters right now without much when it comes to stand up skills.

And what I miss is when it was one dimensional. I loved it when you could have a Boxer fighting someone who was trained in Judo. Then the next fight it might be Wrestling and Karate. They had to take what they know and make it their fight. That still happens now but it was different then


One thing I find funny is how people say ground work takes all kinds of skill (so it isn't boring. And I know it does take skill) but using your hands doesn't and is boring. Give it a shot if it is so easy.

And Frank is one guy that was around the whole time I wasn't watching the sport. He might have been there as I was giving up on it but I'm not sure.

What I liked about MMA ended up killing it for me. I used to love how these little guys (Gracie's) would twist a bigger guy into a pretzel and win fights. I liked this till things went to the ground to much then I lost interest in it. I only started watching again about 3-5 years ago. And has everything to do with all the play on Spike.

And its not 100% the case but most of the exciting fighters are the ones that can fight standing up.

The only ground work I like at all is the guys that have you right where they want you when they are on their back. They twist and turn and in seconds your face is drove up your ass and your legs are bent the wrong way. You tap and fight over. That is skill.

Like I said the sitting on someones chest and hitting them is weak. Its fine for a minute but for a couple of rounds? Wake me up when its over.

James

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Flexin

They have been tying to be more well rounded for a long time. Thats not going to change in that sport. But there are a lot of fighters right now without much when it comes to stand up skills.

And what I miss is when it was one dimensional. I loved it when you could have a Boxer fighting someone who was trained in Judo. Then the next fight it might be Wrestling and Karate. They had to take what they know and make it their fight. That still happens now but it was different then


One thing I find funny is how people say ground work takes all kinds of skill (so it isn't boring. And I know it does take skill) but using your hands doesn't and is boring. Give it a shot if it is so easy.

And Frank is one guy that was around the whole time I wasn't watching the sport. He might have been there as I was giving up on it but I'm not sure.

What I liked about MMA ended up killing it for me. I used to love how these little guys (Gracie's) would twist a bigger guy into a pretzel and win fights. I liked this till things went to the ground to much then I lost interest in it. I only started watching again about 3-5 years ago. And has everything to do with all the play on Spike.

And its not 100% the case but most of the exciting fighters are the ones that can fight standing up.

The only ground work I like at all is the guys that have you right where they want you when they are on their back. They twist and turn and in seconds your face is drove up your ass and your legs are bent the wrong way. You tap and fight over. That is skill.

Like I said the sitting on someones chest and hitting them is weak. Its fine for a minute but for a couple of rounds? Wake me up when its over.

James

I don't know if you have the VS network (used to be Outdoor Living Network), but they broadcast WEC, a sister company to the UFC that's under the Zuffa brand. Their focus is more on the smaller weight classes, specifically focused on Lightweight, Featherweight, and Bantamweight. Sometime this year they're also adding Flyweight. These smaller guys put on fights that have been leaps and bounds more entertaining then many of the fights in the UFC. Miguel Torres, current Bantamweight Champ, is a fucking animal to watch. Like Clay Guida in the UFC, the guy knows how to put on a show. Urijah Faber, former Featherweight Champ, is another guy who comes out and fights some impressively strong and well rounded fights that transition amazingly well from stand up to ground game and back without any dull spots in the sports. I'm still a huge UFC fan, but WEC has won me over with some incredible fast paced fights and far fewer snooze-fests. And so far, all their main events have been on broadcast TV. If you get VS, I highly recommend it. I think it may be something that you would enjoy watching and is less tarnished by guys looking to win on points.

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by Corey

I don't know if you have the VS network (used to be Outdoor Living Network), but they broadcast WEC, a sister company to the UFC that's under the Zuffa brand. Their focus is more on the smaller weight classes, specifically focused on Lightweight, Featherweight, and Bantamweight. Sometime this year they're also adding Flyweight. These smaller guys put on fights that have been leaps and bounds more entertaining then many of the fights in the UFC. Miguel Torres, current Bantamweight Champ, is a fucking animal to watch. Like Clay Guida in the UFC, the guy knows how to put on a show. Urijah Faber, former Featherweight Champ, is another guy who comes out and fights some impressively strong and well rounded fights that transition amazingly well from stand up to ground game and back without any dull spots in the sports. I'm still a huge UFC fan, but WEC has won me over with some incredible fast paced fights and far fewer snooze-fests. And so far, all their main events have been on broadcast TV. If you get VS, I highly recommend it. I think it may be something that you would enjoy watching and is less tarnished by guys looking to win on points.

I don't have it but I'll have to see if I can get it here.

James

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Flexin

I don't have it but I'll have to see if I can get it here.

James

I highly recommend it. I'd link you some Miguel Torres and Urijah Faber stuff, but Zuffa are pretty third reich-ian when it comes to their stuff being distributed on youtube and the likes. Faber's first fight against Jens Pulver was an all out, 5 round brawl. Pulver's first fight in the WEC against Cub Swanson was a quick technical submission that tookless than a minute. Miguel Torres throwing forward flip axe kick in a title match was a thing of beauty. He missed, but damn do you just not see cool shit like that enough.

[Flexin]

BTW I agree with what is said a lot in boxing. Styles make fights.

I watch as many matches as I can. I always say you never know when a fight will break out.

BTW my favorite boxer is Roy Jones Jr. He is coming off a lose and is jumping back in the ring quit. He is fighting in his home town of Pensacola I believe. They are having a mixed fight card. The got approval for a Boxing/MMA fight card. They haven't named the MMA fighters yet but it could be good with the right fighters from both sports. And they said all the fights will be in a boxing ring. They will extend the apron and add a forth rope to protect the MMA fighters that go to the ground.

James

[pickle.of.doom]

Cheating and steroid use is fucking it up though. I'm sure MMA deals with it too though.