First fa-22 fighters delivered to langley

[Cutty72]

I want one.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Dave

thats no great accomplishment. F20s owned F16s all day and night too and it was just an F5 with a better engine and updated electronics

I didn't think F20s were ever put into production. And the F5s I don't believe had the top speed of the F22 or the F16. Maybe like comparing a Lotus Elise to a Diablo. Lotus elise handles better cause of size but the Diablo is better all around. If that makes sense.

I just remember seeing a F22 chase a F16 one day at work and the F16 left contrails to have the F22 come from behind and basically pass it on the inside without even cutting it off on the exit.

[Racerboy]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

I always laugh when people say this will replace the F14, F15, F16, F117, whatever. It will be another 10 years plus before they come out in any real numbers. The roles may overlap, but no single plane is going to be the best at everything.

Very close.....Probably more than 10 years. Here is the breakdown of the others it could be replacing and not all too soon.

F14 TomCat 1974 - 2006
F15 Eagle 1972 - 2025 (estimated retirement date)
F16 Falcon 1976 - 2025 (Est like above)
FA18 Hornet 1983 - Unknown Termination Date at this time

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

I didn't think F20s were ever put into production. And the F5s I don't believe had the top speed of the F22 or the F16. Maybe like comparing a Lotus Elise to a Diablo. Lotus elise handles better cause of size but the Diablo is better all around. If that makes sense.

I just remember seeing a F22 chase a F16 one day at work and the F16 left contrails to have the F22 come from behind and basically pass it on the inside without even cutting it off on the exit.

The F-20 Tigershark was not competitive with the F-16 and more importantly the airframe had limited potential for growth. F-16 is the better airplane and the better buy (even though the first blocks kinda sucked)

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Corey

Man, I lived at Edwards AFB right after they finished the first bits of flight testing on the F-22 (and right after one of them crashed coming in to land). It's a sweet plane, but they had the YF-23 sitting within view right off the flight line and that thing was pure sex in airplane form. I spent many hours staring at that thing. Wish I coulda seen it fly. The F-22 may have certain attributes that made it the victor, but the YF-23 was a way better looking plane.

agreed, the black widow II was one of the sexiest planes ever to roll out of northrop. and unfortunately followed in their tradition of getting screwed on contracts. ol' jack never did make friends in washington

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

I didn't think F20s were ever put into production. And the F5s I don't believe had the top speed of the F22 or the F16. Maybe like comparing a Lotus Elise to a Diablo. Lotus elise handles better cause of size but the Diablo is better all around. If that makes sense.

I just remember seeing a F22 chase a F16 one day at work and the F16 left contrails to have the F22 come from behind and basically pass it on the inside without even cutting it off on the exit.

the twenties never did. northrop presented it as an F16 alternative after the A and B models started losing wings in high G maneuvers. in testing it proved slightly superior in air to air (even killed two of its test pilots due to excessive g force alone) but couldnt carry as much in the ground role (though it carried aim-7s before the 16 could do the same)

interestingly enough, the iranians reverse engineered the old F5s they had left over from the days of the shah and started building a home grown version thats a cross between the F20 and nothrop/grumman's similar yf-17 cobra. they call it azerkesh

[Dave]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

The F-20 Tigershark was not competitive with the F-16 and more importantly the airframe had limited potential for growth. F-16 is the better airplane and the better buy (even though the first blocks kinda sucked)

compared to Cs no, compared to the failure prone As and Bs yes. and at half the price id argue strongly with your final statement

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Racerboy

Very close.....Probably more than 10 years. Here is the breakdown of the others it could be replacing and not all too soon.

F14 TomCat 1974 - 2006
F15 Eagle 1972 - 2025 (estimated retirement date)
F16 Falcon 1976 - 2025 (Est like above)
FA18 Hornet 1983 - Unknown Termination Date at this time

Cheney, under Bush Sr killed the Tomcat(or to be more specific the Tomcat upgrade program) back in the 80's in favor of the SuperHornet. It took awhile for the Superhornet to come online and the F-14 to be phased out. The Superhornet is not a direct replacement of the F-14 because they have different mission profiles.
There has NEVER been any serious consideration for a navalized FA\22.

The FA18 will be replaced by the F-35.

The FA\22 will be replacing the F-15c(air superiority). The F-15E will live on.

In summary the FA\22 will replace the worn out c models of the F-15. It is unlikely that they will replace the F-15E. That bird will fly for many more years and be enhanced by armed RPV and drones.

It's likely mission for the next 25 years is to fly exercises and maybe a cap over an piece of dirt where lower end aircraft did all the dirty work.

By the time it actually sees use justifying the cost it will likely be against a superior aircraft flown by poorly trained pilots.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Dave

compared to Cs no, compared to the failure prone As and Bs yes. and at half the price id argue strongly with your final statement

Sorry but when it came to avionics...the F-20 was always playing catch-up and when it came to payload it fails compared to the f-16.

More power and nicer avionics still can't overcome a limited (and wee) airframe. Especially now with going on 30+ years of service..the F-16 has proved itself to be the better choice. F-20 would not have been able to match what the F-16 airframe has accomplished.

It could be a snappy little dogfighter in a clean configuration but a combat aircraft needs to actually carry stuff and find targets to lob that stuff at.

[Dave]

well it was a helluva lot sexier looking :P

[BICH]

Aaaahhhhh its ok