Passing at the track

[the chi]

Great thread!

I'm pretty much in agreement with most of the posts. I have a phobia of passing and am still trying very much to get over it, making improvement but I hesitate and often lose my chance because I dont have the balls to make the pass. Thus why I'm still in Novice. I cant ride for other people, and its always the thought of "what if they do something crazy" that holds me back. Unless I'm in the zone . Then I don't even see them other than to dart by. Those are the good days.

It's the passers responsibility to pass safely in all situations. Down here most of the track days allow outside passing only in Novice, but alot of times so long as it's a safe pass, they dont say anything. My last track day my CR had me running ragged chasing her and her hubby (also a CR) down and forcing me to pass others to break me of the hesitation. I saw HUGE improvement and had one helluva time, I cant wait to see them again!

I gotta say, if someone is turned around looking at me, I will immediately get as far from them as possible as they arent paying attention to what they should be paying attention to. In all the days I've done, most instructors are adamant that you NEVER look back. If you get busted doing so, you're in for a very long lecture.

And Derf nailed it on the pitting in. If you just cant safely get past someone, pit. Let them go and give yourself some space. If someone is irritating the shit out of you on the track, pit. It's not worth the stress.

You're out there to become the best rider YOU can be, not to be billy badass and see how many folks you can piss off by scaring the snot outta them.

I will say to, it is not unheard of for me to apologize to someone if I feel I stuffed them, or passed too closely. I know I hated it as a brand new track rider when some jerk was running all over me so I try to extend some courtesy towards others.

[CrazyKell]

And I think another good point is that if someone passes you unsafely (not just because you were scared but a truely unsafe pass), pull in and have a word with the marshalls. They can't see everything.

I had a guy on a supermoto jump the turtles and go offroading to pass me last year. I was in beginner group and there's no passing except on the straights. It was my first track day and I had a huge pink X on my back (meaning give me LOTS of space).

I pulled in all flustered and my buddy came over to see what was up. I told him what happened and he said "He can't pull shit like that" and stormed off to the marshalls and the guy was black flagged.

[Trip]

The gap passes cured me of any fear of passing or being passed. Especially local night runs.

[the chi]

*shudder* Something I have still managed to wriggle out of every year ya'll did it.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by Sean

Some orgs here have a no inside passing rule, which is stupid IMO and it makes it a bitch to get around someone that isn't courteous. The key is to get up to A group so you can pass them wherever you want.

While it cerainly does take away some opportunities and makes things more difficult for the passer, no inside passing rules make for a much safer and less intimidating track day environment. The last thing a novice track rider needs is to be tipping into a corner and have someone come up their inside, especially if they're not used to it or expecting it.

We have no inside passing (after tip-in) at our events and we really stress courteous riding. We encourage people to look back AFTER they have established themselves on the front straight and if there's a bike behind them we advise that it might be a good idea to not accelerate as much as you could, give the bike behind you an opportunity to pass, then give them at least a corner before you attempt a re-pass as chances are they're quicker in the corners than you are. We also stress the fact that you don't need to have perfectly clear track in front of you or be going all out 100% to have fun.

We've had very few complaints with this approach.

Me personally, I have no issue riding behind slower riders. Frustration with the person in front of you is a choice; I choose to not be frustrated as I know I have options. If I want clear track and can't work my way through traffic, I'll just pit in and tell whoever is working pit lane that I want space. It's as simple as that and it only takes 30 seconds as opposed to laps and laps of fighting with other riders, trying to force questionable passes.




The last point I'll make for now is that the one thing I see repeatedly with riders who are getting frustrated that they can't pass, is that they're riding ON the rear wheel of the bike in front of them..... GIVE THEM SPACE! This helps YOU relax a bit & maybe formulate a "game plan" and it also gives you a chance to build up some momentum coming out of a corner so that by the time you reach them you've already built up more speed than they have, making the pass a lot easier. If you're ON their rear tire coming out of a corner then it comes down to a drag race to the next corner that you may or may not win. Make the pass based on your skill as a rider, not your bike's capabilities.

[CrazyKell]

Oreo made me think of a good point.

There is nothing more annoying than a bike that passes me in the straights only to park it in the corners. I know it's going to be a relaxed lap at that point....but it's just aggravating when they blow by you like Ricky Road Racer because they have a litre bike, only to absolutely park it in the corners. Grrr.

[OreoGaborio]

Yup... sucks.

The other thing you need to watch out for, is if you pass someone on the brakes just prior to a tip-in point, DON'T merge back onto the line in front of them. You may be faster coming UP to the braking zone, but they may be faster going THROUGH the braking zone. This is especially true at the beginning as they likely won't have to brake as much or as long as you do, since you carried more speed into the braking zone than they did.

So if you pass just prior to getting on the brakes and move over back onto the line, you might cause them to have to jack up on the brakes to avoid hitting you. If you can make that pass, then you should be able to tip-in from the line that you passed them on.

Make sense?

[the chi]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

The last point I'll make for now is that the one thing I see repeatedly with riders who are getting frustrated that they can't pass, is that they're riding ON the rear wheel of the bike in front of them..... GIVE THEM SPACE! This helps YOU relax a bit & maybe formulate a "game plan" and it also gives you a chance to build up some momentum coming out of a corner so that by the time you reach them you've already built up more speed than they have, making the pass a lot easier. If you're ON their rear tire coming out of a corner then it comes down to a drag race to the next corner that you may or may not win. Make the pass based on your skill as a rider, not your bike's capabilities.

It's interesting you say this, I was told I needed to be RIGHT THERE on the back tire and ready to pass the moment I got an opportunity. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by CrazyKell

Oreo made me think of a good point.

There is nothing more annoying than a bike that passes me in the straights only to park it in the corners. I know it's going to be a relaxed lap at that point....but it's just aggravating when they blow by you like Ricky Road Racer because they have a litre bike, only to absolutely park it in the corners. Grrr.

Thats standard fare at a track day sweetie, might as well get used to it and dont let it bother you. Thats why you pit to get away from those folks.

[the chi]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Yup... sucks.

The other thing you need to watch out for, is if you pass someone on the brakes just prior to a tip-in point, DON'T merge back onto the line in front of them. You may be faster coming UP to the braking zone, but they may be faster going THROUGH the braking zone, especially at the beginning if they're carrying less speed into it (as they don't have to brake as much or as long as you do since you carried more speed into the braking zone)

So if you pass just prior to getting on the brakes and move over back onto the line, you might cause them to have to jack up on the brakes to avoid hitting you. If you can make that pass, then you should be able to tip-in from the line that you passed them on.

Make sense?

PERFECT sense. Now if only other folks got it...I get that all the time and having to deal with my bike and not run over their ass can be frustrating to say the least, especially when they jack up the next turn for ya.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by the chi

It's interesting you say this, I was told I needed to be RIGHT THERE on the back tire and ready to pass the moment I got an opportunity. Food for thought.

Not always, sometimes that can make an ego driven rider ride harder making it even harder to complete a safe pass for a track day. Sometimes it's better to wait off the rider some and let him run wide or not accelerate as hard and take your opportunity when they aren't paying attention to you on their wheel.

This is where you got to take your mind off race mentality and get back to track day mentality. If you have to race wheel to wheel with a rider (if it isn't a buddy or CR) at a track day, it's probably better to pit and find another place on the track. It's hard for a lot of riders to do this because we all have our own egos as well.