tazering, deserved or not?

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Any officer who would've felt seriously threatened by that man's actions during the incident needs to grow a pair or find a new job. Its your responsibility as an officer to be calm, objective and respectful dealing with the worst of the worst every single day. This officer was certainly not calm from the start. Your statement reminds me of watching Wildest Police Videos when a cop hits someone who's fleeing and then gets on the radio and goes, "HE JUST RAMMED ME!!!" hahahaha

Should he have been prepared for a threatening action? YES, absolutely, he should've had the Taser drawn and ready to go. In the meantime he should've been treating the suspect with courtesy and respect. He did neither.

How do you give a guy courtesy and respect when he is not obeying your orders? That man could of had a gun and the officer had to treat him accordingly. I hope the police use this as a training video as an example of how to handle this situation. I don't see where the officer did ANYTHING wrong.

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

respect.

Aren't you a proponent of people earning respect instead of blindly giving it?

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Yes, you have to comply with police officers during a traffic stop by law

And did he comply with the police officer?

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by Rider

How do you give a guy courtesy and respect when he is not obeying your orders? That man could of had a gun and the officer had to treat him accordingly. I hope the police use this as a training video as an example of how to handle this situation. I don't see where the officer did ANYTHING wrong.

Agreed

What is the officer supposed to do..stand there all freakin' night until this guy feels loved and respected and finally decides it's time to listen to the officer and either goes back and gets into the car or turns around and puts his hands on the back of his head and kneels down ?

BS...the officer needs to take charge and give the guy a chance to comply but if he refuses and you tell him what is going to happen if he doesn't well tough chit for him...BAM...your're tased...plain and simple.

If the officer does as Kaneman says then every single person with an attitude will run all over him and he will definitely increase his chances of getting hurt or killed.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by z06boy

Agreed

What is the officer supposed to do..stand there all freakin' night until this guy feels loved and respected and finally decides it's time to listen to the officer and either goes back and gets into the car or turns around and puts his hands on the back of his head and kneels down ?

BS...the officer needs to take charge and give the guy a chance to comply but if he refuses and you tell him what is going to happen if he doesn't well tough chit for him...BAM...your're tased...plain and simple.

If the officer does as Kaneman says then every single person with an attitude will run all over him and he will definitely increase his chances of getting hurt or killed.

Exactly, the officers job is to get control of the situation.

[Kaneman]

I think where we disagree is that the man was acting in an aggressive manner. I feel that he was not, I feel that his agitation was increased by the officer's attitude, actions and tone of voice. I'm not suggesting that cops act like pussies, but common courtesy is necessary by all police even in the face of possible danger, I.E., pulling someone over at night.

"Sir, I am officer _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ police department, you are being pulled over for _ _ _ _ , please remain in your vehicle at this time." Notice the introduction and the use of "please." Both these things could've gone a long way toward calming a high tension situation.

I do not believe in earning respect when it comes to an Officer of the Law. As their job affords them great power over the average citizen it is their duty to extend respect to every citizen no matter the behavior. Perps with guns or knives will be killed, those who try to assault an officer will be tased/beaten, all others deserve patience and respect. Adopting the mentality that we must immediately comply with any police officer's orders without question is very scary because we have given them ultimate power. Some will no doubt take advantage of this in bad ways, as we have seen time and time again.

It is a dangerous job, you might not come home at night, everyone will treat you like shit and hate your fucking guts. You will rarely be thanked by anyone even when displaying above average bravery. If you don't like that, don't be a cop, but don't try to compensate with your taser.

[HokieDNA01]

Sir, I am officer _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ police department, you are being pulled over for (rape, car theft, murder, drug dealing, sodomy etc) , please remain in your vehicle at this time."

Seems like a good way to get someone to act out or run. I have NEVER been told of my offense (although I usually know) until AFTER the cop has checked my record for warrents etc.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by HokieDNA01

Sir, I am officer _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ police department, you are being pulled over for (rape, car theft, murder, drug dealing, sodomy etc) , please remain in your vehicle at this time."

Seems like a good way to get someone to act out or run. I have NEVER been told of my offense (although I usually know) until AFTER the cop has checked my record for warrents etc.

This was not a felony stop and I'm not suggesting that Police Officers change the way they conduct a felony stop as that is a different situation. My point is that when dealing with members of the general public more courtesy and less rudeness is warranted and flat out the right thing to do.

I am also not suggesting that Officers lower their sense of awareness or willingness to act with sudden and violent/deadly force to imminent threats. They certainly have the right to defend themselves in the course of doing their jobs. This is about diffusing a potentially dangerous/violent situation, something that even any average martial artist knows how to do and should be standard behavior for any Police Officer who respects his own life. Screaming the same order over and over again will not accomplish this goal. But then, they have Tasers so why should they be bothered to learn how to deal with the public right? That is my point.

Again, based on the video I've seen it is apparent the cop was fearful right off the bat. If conducting a standard nighttime traffic stop scares you then find a different job, this one is not for you.

*If I am wrong and this was indeed a felony traffic stop then obviously none of what I said applies to this specific case however it does apply to many officers that are out there*

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Adopting the mentality that we must immediately comply with any police officer's orders without question is very scary because we have given them ultimate power.

In your previous post, you said you do have to comply with a police officers orders(and it has been law for alot longer than we have been alive).

As for the person in the video. It is common knowledge to stay in your vehicle during a routine traffic stop. that is all the officer asked the person to do.
I can do alot more damage to an officer if I am standing on my feet, than I can from a seated postion in a car.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by karl_1052

In your previous post, you said you do have to comply with a police officers orders(and it has been law for alot longer than we have been alive).

As for the person in the video. It is common knowledge to stay in your vehicle during a routine traffic stop. that is all the officer asked the person to do.
I can do alot more damage to an officer if I am standing on my feet, than I can from a seated postion in a car.

Yes, I'm not suggesting a system where citizens are allowed to ignore a police officers orders. However, you have to realize how stupid the general public is and realize that many times they will not immediately comply and you may have to adjust your style and tone to avoid forcing a situation where violence is necessary.

I've been doing ride-alongs and working in the field for years as an EMT/Vol. Firefighter so I've seen a lot of cops diffuse much more potentially dangerous situations without any violence...and I've also witnessed a lot of behavior that borders on abuse.

A good example of what I'm talking about is seen when a Dallas Police officer stopped Houston Texan's running back Ryan Moats who was going to see his dying mother-in-law. A stop that resulted in the apology by the DPD Chief of Police...
"I am embarrassed and disappointed by the behavior of one of our police officers," the chief told a packed audience of media outlets that included Inside Edition. "His behavior, in my opinion, did not exhibit the common sense, discretion, the compassion that we expect our officers to exhibit."

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

This was not a felony stop and I'm not suggesting that Police Officers change the way they conduct a felony stop as that is a different situation. My point is that when dealing with members of the general public more courtesy and less rudeness is warranted and flat out the right thing to do.

I am also not suggesting that Officers lower their sense of awareness or willingness to act with sudden and violent/deadly force to imminent threats. They certainly have the right to defend themselves in the course of doing their jobs. This is about diffusing a potentially dangerous/violent situation, something that even any average martial artist knows how to do and should be standard behavior for any Police Officer who respects his own life. Screaming the same order over and over again will not accomplish this goal. But then, they have Tasers so why should they be bothered to learn how to deal with the public right? That is my point.

Again, based on the video I've seen it is apparent the cop was fearful right off the bat. If conducting a standard nighttime traffic stop scares you then find a different job, this one is not for you.

*If I am wrong and this was indeed a felony traffic stop then obviously none of what I said applies to this specific case however it does apply to many officers that are out there*

OK, I see the problem. ANY traffic stop is potentially a felony traffic stop and police have to treat it that way, or they go home in a body bag.

Guy gets out of car and stays out, when told to get back in. Guy approaches cop while ignoring more orders to stop, and return to his vehicle. Before the advent of Tasers we'd have been wondering if this was a good SHOOTING instead.