7 myths about Detroit automakers

[Corey]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Mazda seems to be able to do it.

How bout not increasing the size of a car with each generation?

You almost have to. Customers read the magazines, see that Car A beat Car B because it had a more roomy interior and a bigger trunk, a wider and longer wheelbase, and more headroom, and they decide that those are the qualities that they want in a car as well.

Even Mazda isn't immune to it. The new 6 is a physically larger car than the old 6 to accommodate more interior space. It's also heavier, due to the increased size and the focus on eliminating thrashing and harsh noises with sound deadening materials to combat some of the noise complaints of the previous generation. The next generation 3 is larger, heavier, and has a larger engine that makes more power. The trade off is going to be a loss of fuel economy.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by Corey

You almost have to. Customers read the magazines, see that Car A beat Car B because it had a more roomy interior and a bigger trunk, a wider and longer wheelbase, and more headroom, and they decide that those are the qualities that they want in a car as well.

Even Mazda isn't immune to it. The new 6 is a physically larger car than the old 6 to accommodate more interior space. It's also heavier, due to the increased size and the focus on eliminating thrashing and harsh noises with sound deadening materials to combat some of the noise complaints of the previous generation. The next generation 3 is larger, heavier, and has a larger engine that makes more power. The trade off is going to be a loss of fuel economy.

Word!

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Corey

You almost have to. Customers read the magazines, see that Car A beat Car B because it had a more roomy interior and a bigger trunk, a wider and longer wheelbase, and more headroom, and they decide that those are the qualities that they want in a car as well.

Even Mazda isn't immune to it. The new 6 is a physically larger car than the old 6 to accommodate more interior space. It's also heavier, due to the increased size and the focus on eliminating thrashing and harsh noises with sound deadening materials to combat some of the noise complaints of the previous generation. The next generation 3 is larger, heavier, and has a larger engine that makes more power. The trade off is going to be a loss of fuel economy.

The America Market gained size because of Market planners. The ROW version which would meet US regs is smaller.

Another Example is the new Z

[pauldun170]

So basically we like to complain that American cars get poor economny and weigh two tons...but we want every car to be bigger with each generation.

Toss in comments that regs and safety equipment force up weight (difficult to measure because each redisgn adds physical size.."because the market demand bigger cars")

[Corey]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

So basically we like to complain that American cars get poor economny and weigh two tons...but we want every car to be bigger with each generation.

Toss in comments that regs and safety equipment force up weight (difficult to measure because each redisgn adds physical size.."because the market demand bigger cars")

We're a fickle group of consumers that want everything. That's just the way it is. We want a sedan that will fit 5 adults with out their knees touching, 0-60 times in the high 5 second/low 6 second range, horsepower figures that rival or surpass sports cars of 15 years ago, with an interior that's whisper quiet, with 100 airbags, all while making 30 to 40 mpg. That's all well and good, but the performance requires more gas, the sound proofing adds more weight, the larger wheel base to accommodate 5 full sized adults adds even more weight, those fancy 19" or 20" factory rims that people want for style purposes adds even more weight and affects handling and bump absorption, so more shit needs to be added to smooth out the ride. And just when company A puts out the latest sedan that meets most of those criteria, company B announces their next generation sedan that is slightly bigger, has slightly more interior room, makes 15 more horsepower, and accelerates to 60 in 5.8 seconds instead of company A's 5.9.

It's a vicious cycle that continues on this way because those are the things that are most important in deciding our tastes in automobiles. Sure there was a temporary cry of indignation over gas mileage, but that was still aimed more at the cost of gas prices rather than the progress that car companies have made in producing fuel efficient vehicles. The people only started turning their anger towards the auto companies when they started to believe that gas would never drop below $4/gallon and they felt powerless to do anything about it. Since they couldn't change the gas prices, they could point fingers and shift blame to the auto makers for not producing more fuel efficient cars, even though the purchasing history of the American public showed that they were much more interested in trucks and SUV's with higher power outputs and seating for seven.

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by unknownroad

Crosley.

I'll run right down to the local dealership and... oh wait

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by Corey

We're a fickle group of consumers that want everything. That's just the way it is. We want a sedan that will fit 5 adults with out their knees touching, 0-60 times in the high 5 second/low 6 second range, horsepower figures that rival or surpass sports cars of 15 years ago, with an interior that's whisper quiet, with 100 airbags, all while making 30 to 40 mpg. That's all well and good, but the performance requires more gas, the sound proofing adds more weight, the larger wheel base to accommodate 5 full sized adults adds even more weight, those fancy 19" or 20" factory rims that people want for style purposes adds even more weight and affects handling and bump absorption, so more shit needs to be added to smooth out the ride. And just when company A puts out the latest sedan that meets most of those criteria, company B announces their next generation sedan that is slightly bigger, has slightly more interior room, makes 15 more horsepower, and accelerates to 60 in 5.8 seconds instead of company A's 5.9.

It's a vicious cycle that continues on this way because those are the things that are most important in deciding our tastes in automobiles. Sure there was a temporary cry of indignation over gas mileage, but that was still aimed more at the cost of gas prices rather than the progress that car companies have made in producing fuel efficient vehicles. The people only started turning their anger towards the auto companies when they started to believe that gas would never drop below $4/gallon and they felt powerless to do anything about it. Since they couldn't change the gas prices, they could point fingers and shift blame to the auto makers for not producing more fuel efficient cars, even though the purchasing history of the American public showed that they were much more interested in trucks and SUV's with higher power outputs and seating for seven.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

[HRCNICK11]

All true until you factor in the Toyota Penis (yes I typed it that way on purpose). When you factor in that this car is slow, gutless, will not last as long, will cost more to fix, is bad for the planet(batterys), expensive, and only gets slightly better mileage and it sell like hot cakes purely because of marketing.

In truth US consumers are dumb yes thats right I called you and I dumb. We buy shit we can't pay for, that we don't need, might not want if we knew better(had a clue) and we do it because someone down the street did.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by HRCNICK11

All true until you factor in the Toyota Penis (yes I typed it that way on purpose). When you factor in that this car is slow, gutless, will not last as long, will cost more to fix, is bad for the planet(batterys), expensive, and only gets slightly better mileage and it sell like hot cakes purely because of marketing.

In truth US consumers are dumb yes thats right I called you and I dumb. We buy shit we can't pay for, that we don't need, might not want if we knew better(had a clue) and we do it because someone down the street did.

I'm not sure what the volume of hybrid cars are, But I'd be surprised if it still wasn't a small % of car produced.

And what sold them out was $4/gal gas in the US. I've seen gas at $1.59 in the last week. Though I suspect we will see a shift in consumer spending, Much of it ill informed, but a shift none the less.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

I'm not sure what the volume of hybrid cars are, But I'd be surprised if it still wasn't a small % of car produced.

And what sold them out was $4/gal gas in the US. I've seen gas at $1.59 in the last week. Though I suspect we will see a shift in consumer spending, Much of it ill informed, but a shift none the less.

Hybrids current have 3% of the market.
They qualify as fad cars with all the hippy nonsense in the media.

However, as automotive appliances they work. You may get all caught up in the cost benefit of them but they are just cars that chase a different performance metric and there has always been a market for that.

In a way this goes to the whole "Americans want bigger cars that use less gas" thing and here you have vehicles that offer plenty of room and get the economy of smaller cars.


Of course the folks who like to claim that "My Impala get's 40mpg!!" screw the Prius are always entertaining but the fact is no...your Impala does not average 40mpg...despite the one time you are on the highway and the readout said 40mpg.