First fa-22 fighters delivered to langley - Page 9

Homeslice · 02-26-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smileyman

Back on topic CNN has done an invesitagive story and has decided in its wisdom that the F22 isn't worth the $$ in this eeconomy and that Barack needs to cancel the program, send 36-40000 Northrop employees out of work and reapply those 3-6 Billion in funds as a bandaid for some stimulous. Perhaps to keep GM or Chrysler paying their bills for another 3 months.

.

Well even Gates thinks we don't need any more F22's. That tells you something.

the chi · 02-26-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Well even Gates thinks we don't need any more F22's. That tells you something.

FTR-if you work with the current crop of say F15's and even the C130s (which pretty much everyone I know does) these planes are so old and basically patched together that its a miracle they are still flying. Everytime they go out, they break. Some have had so many different things worked on, no one knows what components are good and what arent, so they just leave all the old shit in, safer than removing something that would for certain cause other issues. And as far as repairs, Id say its a safe bet they spend moe money on repairs to the same old shit than it would cost us to get new good shit on our flight lines.

Id rather see newer planes and technology protect me and our country than the same old shit thats outta commision most of the time.

pauldun170 · 02-26-2009, 04:13 PM

The point of weapon system procurement is not to keep businesses afloat or to provide jobs.

That being said, the F-35 despite cost overuns and contractor nonsense is a solid program and many of our allies are patiently waiting for delivery. I'm not a big fan of the 'b' version though.

The F-22...the decision should have been made back in Bush Sr days. We could have either put a real commitment to the program based on the realities of the Soviets going away or explored alternative stop gap measures to reasses. Whether that means partnering up Eurofighter program and dealing with the range limitations of that airframe or saying screw up SuperHornets to fill in the gaps of an aging F-15c fleet.....

At this point, despite what I feel is a great plane for the wrong time...it's finally ready to go. The time to cancel was last fucking century. It's done we're facing a situation where our current stock of F-15c and e's for that matter or wearing out....It would be cheaper in the long run to just make an aquisition of 350 FA\22's vs tossing all that development time and money out the window after the project is already finished only to have to spend billions more to start either a new systems procurement in 10 years.

If there is money to be saved look at our force structure, our doctrine and other programs in incubation. We can reduce the size of the Navy a tiny bit since the government forgot what to do with carriers and the Navy overall. We can open up requests to foreign competitors (and uncouple defence industry lobbyists from senators cocks and vaginas)

Protectionism in defence procurement and keeping programs open because it "keeps jobs in my district" has wasted more money than any benefit realized.

As much as missile defence sucks up $$$...we can't drop it as it's actually something we need. There is value their as long as we keep the cocksucking out of it

pauldun170 · 02-26-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chi

FTR-if you work with the current crop of say F15's and even the C130s (which pretty much everyone I know does) these planes are so old and basically patched together that its a miracle they are still flying. Everytime they go out, they break. Some have had so many different things worked on, no one knows what components are good and what arent, so they just leave all the old shit in, safer than removing something that would for certain cause other issues. And as far as repairs, Id say its a safe bet they spend moe money on repairs to the same old shit than it would cost us to get new good shit on our flight lines.

Id rather see newer planes and technology protect me and our country than the same old shit thats outta commision most of the time.

The F-15E's should still be in decent enough shape despite all the hours being put on the airframes. The C's...I wonder if the restrictions are still up on em.

C130 FTW!!! and the duct tape....and the bugee cord....I think the markets where the build it under license have better C130's (as in airworthy) than we do. Ours are stuffed with cooler toys though from time to time.

the chi · 02-26-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldun170

The F-15E's should still be in decent enough shape despite all the hours being put on the airframes. The C's...I wonder if the restrictions are still up on em.

C130 FTW!!! and the duct tape....and the bugee cord....I think the markets where the build it under license have better C130's (as in airworthy) than we do. Ours are stuffed with cooler toys though from time to time.

Im not certain the a-e planes all my people work on, but I do know that they are constantly being worked on. Cracks on the exterior (wings, tails, etc), wiring and electrical issues, pilot abuse all = very expensive patch jobs to revisit the next time it comes back in from a flight...

The 130's while awesome, are so old and have so much spare crap, they really are afraid to touch the old stuff and instead just add new everytime they put in new things!

But they do get some cool jobs and are awesome planes, but so much in need of upgrades or complete makeovers its sad.

Embarassing that our guys are basically flying around in airplane equivalent of hoopties, regardless of the type of plane really.

And for someone to think we dont need good stuff to protect ourselves and woud rather waste money on stupid shit, like that "arts" thing, well, damn, I kinda like the thought of our military being ready and prepared, not like some foreign militaries that have no defense cuz all their shit's old and broken. (that they bought from us!

)

*edit* That said, I do realize that the govt in the pockets of some of these contractors supplying our equipment is costing us exorbitantly higher prices than we should be seeing, but thats a whole other issue. Bureaucracy, Blech.

smileyman · 02-26-2009, 04:57 PM

At least with defense contracts the money stays here in the USA. Hate to think we would farm out defense to the Koreans, Pakistanis, or Indians

Dave · 02-26-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smileyman

At least with defense contracts the money stays here in the USA. Hate to think we would farm out defense to the Koreans, Pakistanis, or Indians

[devil's advocate] some of those guys build good shit though. ever heard of a ching kuo?

Adeptus_Minor · 02-26-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

ever heard of a ching kuo?

Oh yeah.. that stuff is good on dae-ji bul-go-gi

smileyman · 02-26-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

[devil's advocate] some of those guys build good shit though. ever heard of a ching kuo?

No, astonish me...

Dave · 02-26-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smileyman

No, astonish me...

taiwan decided to build its own fighter when their tigershark order went south. mostly serves with the republic of china airforce.

02-26-2009, 04:57 PM	#86
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	At least with defense contracts the money stays here in the USA. Hate to think we would farm out defense to the Koreans, Pakistanis, or Indians __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!