ATF Running Guns

[nhgunnut]

Is it annoying anyone besides me that most of the Liberal Press ( Not CBS) Is ignoring the fact that the ATF allowed thousand of guns into the hands of Mexican Drug Cartel buyers and strong armed honest dealer into sell to these clowns.
Now Holder seems to be trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
PLease write your congressman and call for a Special Prosecutor
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...ag=mncol;lst;9

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

Is it annoying anyone besides me that most of the Liberal Press ( Not CBS) Is ignoring the fact that the ATF allowed thousand of guns into the hands of Mexican Drug Cartel buyers and strong armed honest dealer into sell to these clowns.
Now Holder seems to be trying to sweep the whole thing under the rug.
PLease write your congressman and call for a Special Prosecutor
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...ag=mncol;lst;9

What do you propose as an alternative to gathering information on gun trafficking?

I also do not see anything about "thousand of guns".

So far the level of outrage doesn't quite match up to info provided.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

What do you propose as an alternative to gathering information on gun trafficking?

I also do not see anything about "thousand of guns".

So far the level of outrage doesn't quite match up to info provided.

read the follow up stories CBS is reporting "Thousand" of guns. Also they a demanded that legitimate dealers allow the SAME buyer to purchase Ak's in lots repeatedly. So ATF knew the buyers and supply chain and could have rolled it up at any moment. One of these Guns killed a a ICE agent. I If you like Fox has a couple of stories as well. Additionally CBS published that the ATF issued after they knew CBS was going to publish (See the CBS site for the follow ups) Calling on agents to get any positive publicity it could for the agency.
This really does appear that Holder is doing his best to cover this up. Mexico's Senate has issued a Statement stating it had no idea that ATF was "Walking Guns into Mexico" There is a Mexican Senator calling for an international investigation. We are seeing none of this in our Media.
I am not usually a Conspiracy Theorist but I guess when Hillary Clinton said American Guns were fueling Mexican Crime she may have known the name of the person who ordered the guns go to Mexico!

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

read the follow up stories CBS is reporting "Thousand" of guns. Also they a demanded that legitimate dealers allow the SAME buyer to purchase Ak's in lots repeatedly. So ATF knew the buyers and supply chain and could have rolled it up at any moment. One of these Guns killed a a ICE agent. I If you like Fox has a couple of stories as well. Additionally CBS published that the ATF issued after they knew CBS was going to publish (See the CBS site for the follow ups) Calling on agents to get any positive publicity it could for the agency.
This really does appear that Holder is doing his best to cover this up. Mexico's Senate has issued a Statement stating it had no idea that ATF was "Walking Guns into Mexico" There is a Mexican Senator calling for an international investigation. We are seeing none of this in our Media.
I am not usually a Conspiracy Theorist but I guess when Hillary Clinton said American Guns were fueling Mexican Crime she may have known the name of the person who ordered the guns go to Mexico!

Were the guns purchased legally?

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Were the guns purchased legally?

They were purchased illealgy under the Strawman Purchasing Laws and the ATF was aware of it. When Dealers were trying to not sell to buyers they knew were in violation of the law, the ATF ordered the sales to go through. Yes the ATF ordered illegal sales, then rather than confiscate the weapons at the border "Walked" them across.
Clearly the ATF violated American Laws and it resulted in the Death of an American Law Enforcement office. Not to mention countless Citizens of Mexico.
Again since the supply chain was well established the buyers identified and easily arrested had those chosen to, it appears the only purpose of the actions was to Prove American Guns were at the Heart of Mexican violence. The guns were in Mexico because the ATF Ordered them to me there!

[pauldun170]

interesting read
http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2976/

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

They were purchased illealgy under the Strawman Purchasing Laws and the ATF was aware of it. When Dealers were trying to not sell to buyers they knew were in violation of the law, the ATF ordered the sales to go through. Yes the ATF ordered illegal sales, then rather than confiscate the weapons at the border "Walked" them across.
Clearly the ATF violated American Laws and it resulted in the Death of an American Law Enforcement office. Not to mention countless Citizens of Mexico.
Again since the supply chain was well established the buyers identified and easily arrested had those chosen to, it appears the only purpose of the actions was to Prove American Guns were at the Heart of Mexican violence. The guns were in Mexico because the ATF Ordered them to me there!

By "Strawman purchasing laws" do you mean the Gun Control Act of 1968?

[pauldun170]

How does the Gun Control Act of 1968 apply to international trafficking of arms?

[Homeslice]

How exactly can a gov't agency force a dealer to sell to someone?

BTW, I would suspect that conservatives would be more likely to cover up a story like this than liberals would. Conservatives are the ones who always stick up for law enforcement.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

How does the Gun Control Act of 1968 apply to international trafficking of arms?

It is not the gun control act of 1968 is the 1988 law that make it a federal crime to procure a firearm for a person who could not otherwise purchase one legally.
The language was strengthened in 94 to the effect that the 4473 says you are the end user of the firearm. Meaning you can not under that law buy a firearm as a gift. ( as Sarah Brady did)
Since the the arms were known by the ATF to bound for Mexico and the ATF ordered multiple sales by the same straw man buyer it can't even be argued that this was an investigative tool.
A Federal Law Enforcement Agency (ATF)ordered that firearms be sold into a network of felons. In short they knowingly facilitated Multiple Felonies that resulted in the Death of a ICE Agent. As well as countless deaths of Mexican Citizens. SO Mr Holder appears to have no trouble facilitating the deaths of Mexicans in Mexico but has a problem when a Arizona Policeman ask to see ID .
As my screen name suggests I enjoy firearms. I am very very careful to to stay within the law at all times. When I filed a form 4 I pretty much gave permission to the ATF to come to my residence and inventory all of my firearms. If I as a citizen or agent of a licensed firearms dealer arranged even on straw man purchase I would eligible for a 15 year mandatory and have opened myself up to ever sort of Civil liability.
Keep in mind when I say this as a rule when I have dealt with the ATF agents they have been kind courteous and professional. More importantly it was an individual ATF Agent that blew the whistle on this horror.
But someone appears to have been using a Federal Agency for political reasons and has gotten a lot of people killed doing so.
Call for a Special Prosecutor make a prove it's all false or Lock some of these callous assholes hiding behind a Federal Desk UP
Again what annoys me is the fact that no one appears to be paying attention to this. It has been reported on briefly by Media at both Ends of the political spectrum CBS and Fox the main stream is ignoring it.