09-13-2010, 08:20 PM | #1 |
The Man
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CrabTown USA
Moto: 00 Bimota DB4
Posts: 823
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Bling vs Bang
I spend a lot of time talking to people who want to know which shock, tuning system, pipe, leathers or fork kit is "best". I talk to a lot more who want their bikes tuned for the "most power".
My response is always the same: I ask a litany of questions about themselves physically, about their riding experience, about their use of the bike and about what they mean by "best" or "most". Sometimes, people get impatient and interrupt me and ask what this all has to do with the initial question. One thing I've learned is that EVERYBODY is different, and so are their wants and needs. Another thing I've learned is that every manufacturer of bikes, performance parts and gear has a different philosophy about about what constitutes better performance and takes different paths to get there. The last thing I've learned is that "performance" is achieved through a series of compromises; that physics is physics and you can't fool mother nature and you don't get a free ride. What I mean by that is that for every decision to take a particular performance path, you need to give up something, be it longevity, ease of service, weight, comfort, expense, convenience.....yada yada yada.... and that that's ok, as long as everybody understands what the tradeoffs are. One of the dangers in building "high performance" machinery is that you, the builder get all done with the project as you see it and the customer comes back with, "It's nice, BUT....". Example. I had a fellow last week who wanted his track (not RACE) bike tuned for maximum top end power, didn't CARE about the cost of "Race Gas" (another topic all together), just whatever it took with the stock motor to get the best top end. Wanted us to use a couple very expensive different blends of race gas to get the "BEST" top end on the dyno. That process involved many (like 6-8) hours of dyno testing (expensive!). For his bike, we settled on VP MR12 (high octane, very detonation resistant on lean mixtures and lots of advance, plus, it made the same horsepower as another blend but the bike ran cooler). Gave him the results and he paid to have another couple of hours done to get a custom map done for all throttle positions in all gears..another couple of hours on the dyno. He came to pick the bike up and the tech was finishing draining and flushing his fuel system (did I mention that this stuff is highly corrosive to fuel fittings and the like, and that if left in the bike more than a few days will trash fuel pumps, injectors , ect? It even says so in big lettering on the cans of fuel he brought us to do the testing). Anyway, after he finished getting the paperwork, dyno charts and map copies (we copy the maps for our customers in case theer is a glitch and they are out of town and need in remapped to the ecu or fuel unit)he wanted to know why were draining the tank, I told him about the need to not store the bike with race gas in it. He blew a cork. "I have to do this every time I'm finished running the bike?" Yep, only if you don't want to be rebuilding the system every other week. He wanted a refund, said nobody told him about the fuels' properties, didn't wanna do that and wasn't going to pay..... Remember, he brought HIS fuel to us....but never did read the lables...just wanted MAX POWER..... Anyway, when I explained to him that we did this work at his specific direction, and that without payment he wouldn't be using his bike that weekend, he relented. But he wasn't happy EVEN THOUGH WE DID EXACTLY WHAT HE ASKED. Sometimes you don't know what's important till it's gone. Life is a series of trade offs..........do your research, ask questions.
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09-13-2010, 08:31 PM | #2 |
White Trash Hero
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition
Posts: 4,895
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Bikes are easy to tune to a certain spec or application, its just time and money. People on the other hand are just plain frustrating. They want what they want except they change their minds or forgot what they asked about to begin with, or maybe they just wanted one thing but lacked the communication skills to say what they mean.
finally I think back on all my experience and it seems the ones who are the hardest to please are the ones who dont know what to do with it anyways..
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09-13-2010, 09:04 PM | #3 |
Elitist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Moto: Gix 750
Posts: 11,351
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should have told him that if he has that much money, he should actually be racing
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09-13-2010, 09:17 PM | #4 |
token jewboy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Moto: CBR 900, KLR ugly ass duckling, Gas Man
Posts: 10,799
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Other than the guy being douche and not doing his research first...
The best upgrade to any bike (and most cars):
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09-13-2010, 09:27 PM | #5 |
Moto GP Star
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 14,556
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Ah but that's his point, define upgrade? I just ordered a new rear tire for my gf. Her bike came with BT016s, would an "upgrade" have been a BT003 (softer=more traction) or would it have been a BT021 (harder=more mileage)? In the end, we stayed with the original (experience=more confidence).
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09-13-2010, 09:38 PM | #6 |
With MORE TYEstosterone
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TX
Moto: '12 KX450F / 08 YZ250F #512 / 07 KX65 #1
Posts: 1,429
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"Max power" has alot of meanings, and that guy should know that. My #1 question to myself when I have to ask that is - How often will I have to rebuild my motor? Which is far more expensive and time consuming to me than draining my gas tank after each ride/race.
I upgrade whatever I can afford at the time. Yes I just recently tuned my bike for max power. But let me add some clarity, I wanted the most I could get with the pipes it had and to run on premium pump gas thus leaving it at a decent state of reliability. Next upgrade and the biggest one before a trackday is DEFINITELY tires. Without question. Then comes suspension and then power. Usually I wait on the power for the last, but I had the bike in for stator replacement and could get a PCIII installed during that same hour of labor so I went ahead with it. |
09-13-2010, 10:07 PM | #7 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central NY
Moto: 2003 SV650S
Posts: 14,959
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He just wanted something that would get him laid.
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09-13-2010, 10:20 PM | #8 |
White Trash Hero
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NW Arkansas
Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition
Posts: 4,895
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HP is good, torque is better, eing able to access both easily and efficiently is paramount. Proper gearing for the track, proper tires and pressures, well adjusted, smooth operating throttle action mean a ton.
Having a ton of HP and torque and not being able to apply it consistently and safely will get you embarassed at best or hurt bad at worst.
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09-13-2010, 10:58 PM | #9 |
Elitist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Moto: Gix 750
Posts: 11,351
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Dude probably has a liter bike and is embarassed that he's getting owned by 600's with better riders. So he wants more power to reel them in on the straights.
If it's just for track days only, I would think that throttle smoothness would be the most important goal to tune for. Who cares about more power unless you're actually competing? Hell, I would have more respect for a STREET rider who asks for more power. |
09-14-2010, 12:24 AM | #10 |
flyin high
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cali
Moto: 10speed huffy w/cards in the spokes
Posts: 2,318
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theres not really one best thing, but you get a few good things paired up together, and sometimes you can find that best combo. you rarely get the best combo from using the so called buy the best of everything method. i see ppl at the track all the time that just throw money at their bikes, without stopping to think about the bigger picture.
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