Crowdfunding - A Rant

Papa_Complex · 01-13-2014, 10:11 AM

A couple of people here have already seen me post this on Facebook, but it annoys me enough that I need to share it. Everywhere.

A Very Long Rant Follows:

Crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo; they're a source of funding for people who have an idea but no conventional funding source, nor a history that could be used to obtain a bank loan for it. I considered it, briefly, when I was starting my first photobook but it turned out to be too problematic and costly, for a project that small. Still, it's been a valuable source of start-up funding for indie movie production houses, for getting books published, and for starting up production of interesting hardware. The indie producers that I support are all on Kickstarter.

This model has its ups and downs. Surely there have been people who have funded campaigns and then just kept the money, without providing what they promised. These are, however, few and far between. By and large the model has been successful. Products like the 'Othermill' affordable desktop CNC machine are making it to maket specifically because of crowdfunding. I've got a stack of DVDs, of movies and 'online TV shows', that were produced through crowd funding.

Unfortunately there's a recent trend, that threatens the continuation of the crowdfunding model. People who have ready sources of investor cash are turning to crowdfunding to fund their projects. This is because they have to pay back conventional investments, or take a chance that their own not inconsiderable personal funds might not make a return, but people who give them funding through crowdfunding can typically be bought off with a t-shirt or autographed tchotchke. In other words, for them, it's essentially free money. They're poisoning the well. The recent Kickstarter projects for the "Veronica Mars" movie ($5,702,153.00) and Spike Lee's rather self indulgently named "The Newest Hottest Spike Lee Joint" funding project ($1,418,910.00) immediately come to mind.

For comparison purposes Spike Lee's Kickstarter campaign offers, for a $50.00 investment, an autographed script page from "Jim Brown; All American." Over the weekend the Kickstarter campaign for " Space Janitors", a made-in-Toronto web series, offered autographed DVDs of all three seasons (the two previous and season 3) and access to their ongoing production blogs, including such things as the 3D wireframes that they used for their CGI.

I urge you to not support projects started by people who can clearly manage on their own. They give you nothing new. They give you little or nothing in return for your funding. They take what could be used by more innovative people. They destroy the funding model. The people who use the model responsibly realize when they're starting to outgrow the model. For example Zombie Orpheus Entertainment, who have produced a goodly number of projects through Kickstarter campaigns, have realized that they've become too large, to exclusively fund their projects this way and have created a direct subscription model called "Phase II." They will continue to fund through crowdfunding, but will now have stable funding with which they can keep production rolling, on a day-to-day basis.

TLDR: Support the little guys who give you something innovative and new. Ignore the big players who don't need you but will gladly take your money, giving nothing in return.

Trip · 01-13-2014, 12:07 PM

I think you can count on me not to support Veronica Mars, Spike Lee, or Space Janitors.

I thought Space Janitors joined up with Felicia Day's group. That shit was terrible.

Only thing I have supported so far was the bug gun(garbage) and a cool no wash wool shirt.

Rangerscott · 01-13-2014, 03:19 PM

The salt gun was no bueno?

Trip · 01-13-2014, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott

The salt gun was no bueno?

It was cheap and a few pieces broke within a week of use. It jammed up fairly easily and required using water to rinse it free. Effective range was really lousy. You had to be pretty much be on top of a bug to kill it unless it was tiny. Anything flying was almost impossible to take down unless you went full ninja.

Papa_Complex · 01-13-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

I think you can count on me not to support Veronica Mars, Spike Lee, or Space Janitors.

I thought Space Janitors joined up with Felicia Day's group. That shit was terrible.

Only thing I have supported so far was the bug gun(garbage) and a cool no wash wool shirt.

They were part of Geek & Sundry and seemed to move away from them, for their second season. No idea if they walked or were dropped, since I've only had limited email contact with the creator. They're back together now and that, alone, bumped their Kickstarter for season 3 by almost $20K, overnight.

The Zombie Orpheus guys are moving ahead pretty well. Their last production, "Gamers - The Hands of Fate", had pretty good production values. It's on par, in my opinion, with some network level stuff. Whether the story is the sort of thing that you'd like isn't for me to say

Gas Man · 01-14-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

It was cheap and a few pieces broke within a week of use. It jammed up fairly easily and required using water to rinse it free. Effective range was really lousy. You had to be pretty much be on top of a bug to kill it unless it was tiny. Anything flying was almost impossible to take down unless you went full ninja.

That sucks... I liked the idea.

Papa_Complex · 01-14-2014, 07:50 AM

And that's one of the risks that you can and should expect with crowdfunding; that the product really isn't very good. Another is that the person who is doing the project under estimates the costs involved and can't complete production. I see those both as reasonable.

At this point I'm exclusively funding creative projects (web series, indie movies). Generally speaking I look at the rewards offered for a specific funding level and if I think that's reasonable value for the investment, I go ahead. To date I haven't funded anything at more than a US$50.00 level. I would actually have funded the Othermill at the $999.00 level, but unfortunately the Kickstarter had already closed by the time I heard about it.

Archren · 01-14-2014, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

And that's one of the risks that you can and should expect with crowdfunding; that the product really isn't very good. Another is that the person who is doing the project under estimates the costs involved and can't complete production. I see those both as reasonable.

At this point I'm exclusively funding creative projects (web series, indie movies). Generally speaking I look at the rewards offered for a specific funding level and if I think that's reasonable value for the investment, I go ahead. To date I haven't funded anything at more than a US$50.00 level. I would actually have funded the Othermill at the $999.00 level, but unfortunately the Kickstarter had already closed by the time I heard about it.

I took a risk and funded a group (Wanderlust Cameras) who wants to manufacture a lightweight 4x5 film camera called a Travelwide. 630g, fully loaded with lens, film holder, view finder and range finder.. weighs less than a Canon 5D Mk II.

Was supposed to deliver last month, but I know they ran into a few issues in the manufacturing process that has made it take a little longer.

Papa_Complex · 01-14-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archren

I took a risk and funded a group (Wanderlust Cameras) who wants to manufacture a lightweight 4x5 film camera called a Travelwide. 630g, fully loaded with lens, film holder, view finder and range finder.. weighs less than a Canon 5D Mk II.

Was supposed to deliver last month, but I know they ran into a few issues in the manufacturing process that has made it take a little longer.

Sounds interesting. Do you know if it would be compatible with any of the current digital backs?

Archren · 01-14-2014, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Sounds interesting. Do you know if it would be compatible with any of the current digital backs?

I imagine you could if you jury-rigged it. I've only used a digital back on a 4x5 once, and never bothered with it again, so I'm not sure if it would be possible to mount it on there without some light leaks. If you want to take a look for yourself to see if you think it could work, here's the link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...wide-45-camera

01-13-2014, 10:11 AM	#1
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	Crowdfunding - A Rant A couple of people here have already seen me post this on Facebook, but it annoys me enough that I need to share it. Everywhere. A Very Long Rant Follows: Crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo; they're a source of funding for people who have an idea but no conventional funding source, nor a history that could be used to obtain a bank loan for it. I considered it, briefly, when I was starting my first photobook but it turned out to be too problematic and costly, for a project that small. Still, it's been a valuable source of start-up funding for indie movie production houses, for getting books published, and for starting up production of interesting hardware. The indie producers that I support are all on Kickstarter. This model has its ups and downs. Surely there have been people who have funded campaigns and then just kept the money, without providing what they promised. These are, however, few and far between. By and large the model has been successful. Products like the 'Othermill' affordable desktop CNC machine are making it to maket specifically because of crowdfunding. I've got a stack of DVDs, of movies and 'online TV shows', that were produced through crowd funding. Unfortunately there's a recent trend, that threatens the continuation of the crowdfunding model. People who have ready sources of investor cash are turning to crowdfunding to fund their projects. This is because they have to pay back conventional investments, or take a chance that their own not inconsiderable personal funds might not make a return, but people who give them funding through crowdfunding can typically be bought off with a t-shirt or autographed tchotchke. In other words, for them, it's essentially free money. They're poisoning the well. The recent Kickstarter projects for the "Veronica Mars" movie ($5,702,153.00) and Spike Lee's rather self indulgently named "The Newest Hottest Spike Lee Joint" funding project ($1,418,910.00) immediately come to mind. For comparison purposes Spike Lee's Kickstarter campaign offers, for a $50.00 investment, an autographed script page from "Jim Brown; All American." Over the weekend the Kickstarter campaign for " Space Janitors", a made-in-Toronto web series, offered autographed DVDs of all three seasons (the two previous and season 3) and access to their ongoing production blogs, including such things as the 3D wireframes that they used for their CGI. I urge you to not support projects started by people who can clearly manage on their own. They give you nothing new. They give you little or nothing in return for your funding. They take what could be used by more innovative people. They destroy the funding model. The people who use the model responsibly realize when they're starting to outgrow the model. For example Zombie Orpheus Entertainment, who have produced a goodly number of projects through Kickstarter campaigns, have realized that they've become too large, to exclusively fund their projects this way and have created a direct subscription model called "Phase II." They will continue to fund through crowdfunding, but will now have stable funding with which they can keep production rolling, on a day-to-day basis. TLDR: Support the little guys who give you something innovative and new. Ignore the big players who don't need you but will gladly take your money, giving nothing in return. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

01-14-2014, 07:50 AM	#7
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	And that's one of the risks that you can and should expect with crowdfunding; that the product really isn't very good. Another is that the person who is doing the project under estimates the costs involved and can't complete production. I see those both as reasonable. At this point I'm exclusively funding creative projects (web series, indie movies). Generally speaking I look at the rewards offered for a specific funding level and if I think that's reasonable value for the investment, I go ahead. To date I haven't funded anything at more than a US$50.00 level. I would actually have funded the Othermill at the $999.00 level, but unfortunately the Kickstarter had already closed by the time I heard about it. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

01-13-2014, 12:07 PM	#2
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	I think you can count on me not to support Veronica Mars, Spike Lee, or Space Janitors. I thought Space Janitors joined up with Felicia Day's group. That shit was terrible. Only thing I have supported so far was the bug gun(garbage) and a cool no wash wool shirt.

01-13-2014, 03:19 PM	#3
Rangerscott Viff6N Mutated Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Moto: '01 Honda VFR 800 & '09 ER-6N Posts: 8,704	The salt gun was no bueno?