Da Flag be not flown

udman · 03-16-2010, 05:12 PM

Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence

By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell - USA Today
Posted : Monday Mar 15, 2010 15:35:11 EDT

The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances.

France's tricolor, Britain's Union Jack and even Croatia's coat of arms flap in the breeze.

But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport.

The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake.

The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

"We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.

The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

"It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will."

The U.S. flag has flown in Haiti under circumstances that were not always friendly.

In 1915, Marines invaded Haiti to restore stability after several coups. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan pressured dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to renounce his rule and leave. In 1994, President Bill Clinton sent troops to prop up President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In 2004, President George W. Bush's administration eased Aristide out of office amid a brutal civil war.

France, the former colonizer of the country, has its flag up at its base in Port-au-Prince. The Haiti flag is based on the French flag, turned on its side with the white stripped out.

Army Col. Billy Buckner, spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, a group representing various Obama administration agency heads, said the decision not to fly the American flag was made out of respect as guests of the government of Haiti.

"It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said.

U.S. Air Force air operations specialists and FAA air-traffic controllers manage air traffic at Haiti's main airport, where millions of dollars in aid from the United States has been arriving for weeks. More than 12,000 U.S. military personnel support relief operations.

"Our commanders are smart and intuitively understand their mission here in Haiti, and clearly the sensitivities that come with supporting the mission," Buckner said.A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti.

"Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said.

He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down.

The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence.

During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

pauldun170 · 03-16-2010, 05:27 PM

Unlike the other countries mentioned, the US has done some fucked up things in Haiti and if some US officials would like to help out flagless, I can understand and have no problem with this decision.

If some would rather dish out humanitarian aid wearing T-shirts stating "I am an American and I am helping you" while golden eagles fly overhead with Stars and Stripes trailing from each claw then I gonna have to sit here and wonder why I care if they are upset.

(Counterpoint)
Hey!! You poor savages!!!
This is my flag, I display it proud!!
You don't like then go fuck yourself.
I'm here to help you....not the other way around.

smileyman · 03-16-2010, 06:20 PM

Who needs to fly a flag to feel important on a humaintarian mission. Flags are meant as standards, rallying points on a battlefield, flown to show who has claimed the spot for their own. I for one don't want any liability or responibilty for Haiti...help the sure, but dont put them on our tit. Flying a flag in my senses just means we own it.

goof2 · 03-17-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Unlike the other countries mentioned, the US has done some fucked up things in Haiti and if some US officials would like to help out flagless, I can understand and have no problem with this decision.

France "has done some fucked up things in Haiti" too. Their stuff isn't as recent but it did happen. I understand not flying the flag though.

pauldun170 · 03-17-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2

France "has done some fucked up things in Haiti" too.

By those standards we should demand that England not fly any flags around here

goof2 · 03-17-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldun170

By those standards we should demand that England not fly any flags around here

I haven't seen any English military camps set up here where they can do so.

wildchild · 03-17-2010, 11:07 AM

well the important thing is that they're still willing to take our money and assistance. wouldn't want them to miss out on that.

Papa_Complex · 03-17-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildchild

well the important thing is that they're still willing to take our money and assistance. wouldn't want them to miss out on that.

Did I miss where it said that Haitians were asking that Americans not fly the flag?

Papa_Complex · 03-17-2010, 08:45 AM

Pauldun170 and smileyman, I applaud the simple good sense of your comments.

the chi · 03-17-2010, 11:56 AM

Sweetie, nothing will repair our international reputation. Foreign countries will continue to call us names, think ugly things and do mean things to and because of the good ole US of A simply because they can (and Im sure they are jealous as hell, of some things anyway).

It doesnt matter who we help, who we aid, what countries we carry on our shoulders while the rest of the world turns its back. Honestly, theres a good many people who'd like to see us draw in and see what the rest of you could do without our aid (when we are doing things like the Haiti relief, etc), myself included.

Respecting the request is simply a polite gesture that our leaders decided to stick to because they want to be PC and dont want to "offend" anyone. Another point to the wussification of America.

03-16-2010, 05:12 PM	#1
udman You are not the Man!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Austin TX Moto: Hawk GT Posts: 750	Da Flag be not flown Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell - USA Today Posted : Monday Mar 15, 2010 15:35:11 EDT The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances. France's tricolor, Britain's Union Jack and even Croatia's coat of arms flap in the breeze. But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport. The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake. The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea. "We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag. The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association. "It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will." The U.S. flag has flown in Haiti under circumstances that were not always friendly. In 1915, Marines invaded Haiti to restore stability after several coups. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan pressured dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to renounce his rule and leave. In 1994, President Bill Clinton sent troops to prop up President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In 2004, President George W. Bush's administration eased Aristide out of office amid a brutal civil war. France, the former colonizer of the country, has its flag up at its base in Port-au-Prince. The Haiti flag is based on the French flag, turned on its side with the white stripped out. Army Col. Billy Buckner, spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, a group representing various Obama administration agency heads, said the decision not to fly the American flag was made out of respect as guests of the government of Haiti. "It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said. U.S. Air Force air operations specialists and FAA air-traffic controllers manage air traffic at Haiti's main airport, where millions of dollars in aid from the United States has been arriving for weeks. More than 12,000 U.S. military personnel support relief operations. "Our commanders are smart and intuitively understand their mission here in Haiti, and clearly the sensitivities that come with supporting the mission," Buckner said.A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti. "Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said. He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down. The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence. During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors. The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004. "Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything." __________________ You can put lipstick on a VS Forum, but it's still a VS Forum...

03-16-2010, 06:20 PM	#3
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Who needs to fly a flag to feel important on a humaintarian mission. Flags are meant as standards, rallying points on a battlefield, flown to show who has claimed the spot for their own. I for one don't want any liability or responibilty for Haiti...help the sure, but dont put them on our tit. Flying a flag in my senses just means we own it. __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

03-17-2010, 08:45 AM	#9
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	Pauldun170 and smileyman, I applaud the simple good sense of your comments. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

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03-17-2010, 11:07 AM	#7
wildchild cruiser Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: on the run Moto: '09 HD superglide, 16 Yamaha FZ 09 Posts: 2,749	well the important thing is that they're still willing to take our money and assistance. wouldn't want them to miss out on that.