FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness study,

RACER X · 01-27-2009, 02:32 PM

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Food for thought to all you who carry small caliber side arms or have women who carry small caliber handguns.

smileyman · 01-27-2009, 02:40 PM

Very interesting stuff! Thanks for posting...

Papa_Complex · 01-27-2009, 02:42 PM

I agree, very interesting. I've only glanced through it so far, but it sounds like the information would support the use of a high velocity pistol round like that fired by the FN Five-seveN (5.7mm bottle-necked cartridge), if it was a PSP variant. That tends to go against the "common wisdom."

fnfalman · 01-27-2009, 03:44 PM

The only problem with this study and this type of study is that it deals with after the facts. Yeah, the doctors cut up the bodies and see the wounds, but it doesn't take into the psychological aspect of the wounded.

We know that a bullet in the bullet will kill...eventually. What we can't predict is if the wounded will drop dead right then and there or keep on fighting for the next several minutes.

Rider · 01-28-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnfalman

The only problem with this study and this type of study is that it deals with after the facts. Yeah, the doctors cut up the bodies and see the wounds, but it doesn't take into the psychological aspect of the wounded.

We know that a bullet in the bullet will kill...eventually. What we can't predict is if the wounded will drop dead right then and there or keep on fighting for the next several minutes.

The hydrostatic shock of a .44 magnum is enough to keep someone down. Compared to a .40 S&W, the .44 magnum has around 3 times the energy, about 1,500ft-lbs. Size matters.

fnfalman · 01-28-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

The hydrostatic shock of a .44 magnum is enough to keep someone down. Compared to a .40 S&W, the .44 magnum has around 3 times the energy, about 1,500ft-lbs. Size matters.

.44 Magnums don't go fast enough to generate hydrostatic shock.

And the hottest .44 Mag load runs around 1200-lbft, which is pretty considerable, but it ain't no magic bullet either.

Rider · 01-28-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnfalman

.44 Magnums don't go fast enough to generate hydrostatic shock.

And the hottest .44 Mag load runs around 1200-lbft, which is pretty considerable, but it ain't no magic bullet either.

a 300gr JHP will produce 1500-ftlb. Where does hydrostatic shock begin?

2000+ FPS?

OTB · 01-28-2009, 11:35 AM

Dear folks:

It is not just the potential energy (MxV) that causes incapacitiation. It is energy TRANSFERRED / Time. The greater amount of energy transferred to the target over the shortest possible time in the proper target area is what causes the most damage and shock.

If you read the whole article, the whole point is to identify calibers and ammo that CAUSES THE TARGET TO STOP FIGHTING. Please also note that this study is 20 years old. There have been numerous advances in ammo tech that have completely changed the landscape of ammunition effectiveness. (Frangibles, "sawtooth" ammos, ect.)

Some of the new ammos in 32 are more effective than .45 ball.

fnfalman · 01-28-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

a 300gr JHP will produce 1500-ftlb. Where does hydrostatic shock begin?

2000+ FPS?

Hydrostatic shock probably begins at around 2200FPS at the point of impact.

Amorok · 01-28-2009, 07:40 AM

Last line - "Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." See, 9mm sucks.

01-27-2009, 02:32 PM	#1
RACER X AMA Supersport Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond, Tx Moto: '10 Tuono Factory Posts: 4,569	FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness study, http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf Food for thought to all you who carry small caliber side arms or have women who carry small caliber handguns. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ 2014 GROM! 181cc of FURY 2010 Aprilia Tuono Factory - SOLD 2009 SFV Gladius - SOLD 2008 Hayabusa - SOLD.

01-27-2009, 02:40 PM	#2
smileyman White Trash Hero Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NW Arkansas Moto: Buell 1125R Porco Rosso Edition Posts: 4,895	Very interesting stuff! Thanks for posting... __________________ Arkriders.com To be the best you must first be willing to risk the worst!

01-27-2009, 03:44 PM	#4
fnfalman Europhile Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SoCal Moto: Aprilia RS125, Aprilia SR50 Factory, Aprilia Tuono, BMW Rockster, KTM 990 Adventure Posts: 1,875	The only problem with this study and this type of study is that it deals with after the facts. Yeah, the doctors cut up the bodies and see the wounds, but it doesn't take into the psychological aspect of the wounded. We know that a bullet in the bullet will kill...eventually. What we can't predict is if the wounded will drop dead right then and there or keep on fighting for the next several minutes. __________________ *Cogito Ergo Vroom - I think therefore I ride*

01-28-2009, 07:40 AM	#10
Amorok Issukangitok Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Biloxi, MS Moto: '06 Suzuki Boulevard C50T Posts: 2,225	Last line - "Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." See, 9mm sucks. __________________ What goes around comes around. Sometimes you get what's coming around, and sometimes you are what's coming around. You see what I mean?

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01-27-2009, 02:42 PM	#3
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	I agree, very interesting. I've only glanced through it so far, but it sounds like the information would support the use of a high velocity pistol round like that fired by the FN Five-seveN (5.7mm bottle-necked cartridge), if it was a PSP variant. That tends to go against the "common wisdom."

01-28-2009, 11:35 AM	#8
OTB The Man Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: CrabTown USA Moto: 00 Bimota DB4 Posts: 823	Dear folks: It is not just the potential energy (MxV) that causes incapacitiation. It is energy TRANSFERRED / Time. The greater amount of energy transferred to the target over the shortest possible time in the proper target area is what causes the most damage and shock. If you read the whole article, the whole point is to identify calibers and ammo that CAUSES THE TARGET TO STOP FIGHTING. Please also note that this study is 20 years old. There have been numerous advances in ammo tech that have completely changed the landscape of ammunition effectiveness. (Frangibles, "sawtooth" ammos, ect.) Some of the new ammos in 32 are more effective than .45 ball.