Dear Abby...

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

OSP is not easily intimidated... Never has been. Especially if he knows there's not shit that the 'intimidator' is going to do...

Intimidation really isn't all of it. I mean, I deal with - and have dealt with some incredibly difficult kids [and adults ]. I'd rather deal with the difficult cases long before the "normal" ones.

It's all about knowing what gets them to pay attention.

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post. But, no one has gone there. Raising kids isn't that different than training animals. Would you hit a cat if it didn't do what you expected? What would happen, other than it running scared from you or it acting out MORE? Think about that - now, think about doing something different with a child. Most children can be reasoned with to an extent, AT THEIR LEVEL.

I'm NOT saying pleading with them. I'm not saying you DEAL with them. I'm saying... they WILL respect what you do and want without you ever raising a hand to them.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I hope some of you will grow some patience before you have children.

I have never raised a hand to my children. And, I can assure you - they completely respect me and the other adults in their lives.

Hitting DOES equate violence. I don't care how you think you did it. It plants into their mind fear and the concept that conflicts should be resolved or dealt with in a physical manner. This was one thing I wanted to make sure my daughters learned without any sort of physical behavior.

Just because I don't spank my children it does not mean they do not have discipline. It is something that as a parent you need to figure out. What will get them to pay attention. Is it taking away a favorite toy? Or, is it building a household around them wanting to strive for posetive aspects?

Let's look at something more simple. Let's take training a dog. Do you hit your dog when they do something you don't want them to do? Or, do you get onto the floor with them and praise them or give them treats when they do something posetive?

It takes patience. It takes consistant behavior. It takes posetive reinforcement and swift action rather than reaction. Too much of what you are seeing around you with "kids today" isn't from lack of discipline. It's from parents not having the patience to actually raise children. It's threats that aren't followed through on and the want to be buddies. It's about thinking with your head rather than just going with what you know from when you were growing up. Just because it was good enough for you, that doesn't mean it is best for your children.

I won't ever strike my child - not in anger, not with the idea of teaching them something, certainly not just because I was when I was young.

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post. But, no one has gone there. Raising kids isn't that different than training animals. Would you hit a cat if it didn't do what you expected? What would happen, other than it running scared from you or it acting out MORE?

Saw it, but was purposefully ignoring it because there are at least as many different methods for training dogs (your original example) as there are for raising kids, and it will make for a whole other thread. If you can train your cat to behave how you want it to even the majority of the time, more power to you, but comparing cats and dogs is like comparing cats and dogs.

At any rate, my brother-in-law spanks his dogs when they get too far out of line. He rarely has to do it anymore now that they are trained. They are two of the most well behaved and friendliest dogs you'll ever meet, and they are not afraid of him or any other people. He had two other dogs when I first met him, who have since died of natural causes, who were the same. I have personally used spankings for my dogs on rare occasions. It's tougher to associate the act with the punishment for dogs than it is for children, in my opinion. For the record, we both also praise good behavior.

The simple fact that shock collars, invisible fences, and bark collars succeed on the market says to me that dogs respond to negative reinforcement as well as positive. But the idea that, if you dole out the negative reinforcement personally it somehow negates the training, is just bogus in my experience.

Professionals do the same. Find a Marine War Dog or MP K-9 unit and ask them how they train their puppies. And before anyone says it, no those dogs are not ticking time bombs. They are better trained and more well behaved than most people's dogs. They are animals, like any dogs, and shit happens where animals are concerned, but most become loyal pets when they are retired (if they are adopted). More than likely safer than the lab next door because of the discipline.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

OSP is not easily intimidated... Never has been. Especially if he knows there's not shit that the 'intimidator' is going to do...

OSP needs to stop talking about himself in third person, or the powers that be may throw OSP in a nicely upholstered room for a few years, for fear that he's a ticking time bomb

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

OSP needs to stop talking about himself in third person, or the powers that be may throw OSP in a nicely upholstered room for a few years, for fear that he's a ticking time bomb

talking in the third person is one of the sanest (if that's a word) things OSP does.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by ebbs15

talking in the third person is one of the sanest (if that's a word) things OSP does.

So just how hard is it to type in a strait-jacket, I wonder?

[z06boy]

Comparing raising and diciplining children to training dogs and cats makes me laugh.

A pet doesn't go to school or play with others and hear stories about what happened in another household or have the same peer pressure that kids do.

Occasionally spanking or popping a child on the butt does not equal abuse nor does it mean the kid is going to grow up to be violent.

If you don't believe in spanking and 'not spanking' works for you and your child that's great but each kid is different and each household is different. Occasional spanking works for others.

My father spanked the 4 of us at times but it was few and far between but enough to get our attention. I didn't fear my father...he was and still is a great family loving man. I only "feared" facing him when I knew I had done something worthy of getting a spanking.

Spanking does not equal BEATING !! Abuse is abuse...mental and physical and that's totally different.

[MikeSP1]

Some of the stupid shit that I did as a kid could not be reasoned with. Some lessons I learned quickly. One such lesson was to not touch the stove, that SOB was hot and it hurt. I never did that again.

One thing that took some doing was learning the meaning of respect. It was a difficult lesson for me, because it was a concept and not something tangible. I finally truly and fully understood the meaning of respect when it was put in comparison to disrespect. I learned to respect people, things, animals, etc because I learned that disrespect was not to be tolerated. Disrespect was both intolerable and inexcusable. I made this mistake one time that I can really remember. I talked back to someone, my father asked me to repeat myself (I found out later that it was to make sure he had heard me correctly), I repeated what I had said, then I was immediately taught that what I had done was out of line. I never did it again.

I don't care who you are, but I know that I would not have learned this lesson any other way until much later. Some people learn the easy way. But I learned the hard way more often than not. But the lessons that I learned the hard way, I have never forgotten. I do not fear my father, never have, but I did fear the consequences of my actions and I was taught at a young age that every spanking I received was a result of something that I had done wrong. I deserved every single spanking I ever received.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by z06boy

Comparing raising and diciplining children to training dogs and cats makes me laugh.

At the core of their aspects, they aren't that different. I've seen people treat their animals as though they were precious - yet treat their children like crap.

This is one of those discussions that is best left in person.

[z06boy]

Originally Posted by azoomm

This is one of those discussions that is best left in person.

Agreed