wow. local MSF inst. trying to pawn off zx-12r to a new rider - Page 6

RACER X · 01-15-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Awesome

The problem is you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor. The MSF is a joke, and it should not be assumed that just because someone is playing the role of teacher that they have any business being there. My MSF instructors were some of the worst riders I've seen to this day.

you must not hang out w/ many riders, or all your friends like you are riding gods........

maybe not

how many times you crashed ?, thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Awesome

I'm not exactly sure. I think it's somewhere around 10 or 12.

NeonspeedRT · 01-15-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Awesome

The problem is you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor. The MSF is a joke, and it should not be assumed that just because someone is playing the role of teacher that they have any business being there. My MSF instructors were some of the worst riders I've seen to this day.

I hate to inform you, but you are very, very mistaken. Part of the qualifications to be a MSF rider coach is that you must be an active motorcycle rider and currently own a motorcycle. "Most" schools will want you to have several years of riding under your belt and those years consisting of alot of miles. Not just riding back and forth to bike night or being a weekend warrior.

Not to mention to be a rider coach, you must have completed the BRC MSF class and then have 60 to 120 hours of "range aiding". Basically being a cone kicker and learning how to set up the range, what goes where and observing the rider coaches. Seeing how they interact with all the students what they say and what they do. Seeing how things are done, what kind of questions they ask and how they deal with the different situations.

Once the range aiding is done there is an 8 day program to get certified to become a rider coach. During that 8 day program the rider coach candidates are observed and watched from every angle possible. The rider coach candidate has to basically do the whole BRC class again and complete the riding evaluation with a much better score then the normal student.

So there is alot of time and training that goes into becoming a MSF rider coach. Training will vary by state, but those are the basic guidelines. There is also the ongoing training and state updates that rider coaches are required to attend.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you just chose a bad school to attend. Did you do any research about the school first? Maybe you went to class with the "I know it all and they can't teach me anything" attitude. I don't know you, so I can't say either way. But we have those kind of students come through all the time. If you have that attitude, you are already in shut down mode and will never learn anything.

I would highly reccomend taking the class again and see if you have a different experience. It can't hurt. It can only help you.

If your instructors were truly that bad, you should have filed a complaint with the MSF or the school itself. Did you contact the owner of the school to share your experiences?

neebelung · 01-15-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACER X

you must not hang out w/ many riders, or all your friends like you are riding gods........

maybe not

how many times you crashed ?, thread

neebelung · 01-15-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

Is this one of those Trip-like arguments where you say stupid shit to stand ground on something you don't believe in just for the sake of arguing?

Pretty much. PoD likes to sprak discussion and controversy (nothing wrong with it, but it helps when you know that's his M.O. ).

fasternyou929 · 01-15-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neebelung

Pretty much. PoD likes to sprak discussion and controversy (nothing wrong with it, but it helps when you know that's his M.O. ).

Well, there's nothing wrong with it except it's painfully stupid, but at least I know that's his MO now.

The Awesome · 01-15-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACER X

how many times you crashed ?

Maybe my lack of riding ability stems from my poor MSF instruction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

I hate to inform you, but you are very, very mistaken. Part of the qualifications to be a MSF rider coach is that you must be an active motorcycle rider and currently own a motorcycle.

"Buy a bike and ride it" is hardly what I would call a qualification. Every squid in the world bought a bike and rode it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Not to mention to be a rider coach, you must have completed the BRC MSF class and then have 60 to 120 hours of "range aiding".

So we've got "buy a bike", "ride it", and now "show up".

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Once the range aiding is done there is an 8 day program to get certified to become a rider coach.

"Buy a bike", "ride it", "show up", and finally "Come to class for a week". I guess the reason for the inadequacy is no secret. We desperately need real rider training in this country just like we need real driver training. The standards for everything are just so low it's a joke. We will continue to have streets full of squids and oblivious soccer moms until licensing becomes less about collecting money and more about properly educating.

I had the displeasure of riding later on with the group of instructors that taught my MSF, and even then I could see they were everything that embodies the stereotypical squid. They had absolutely no clue what to do on a motorcycle in any way, shape, or form. The "training" was just as bad.

As far as the material itself, there are quite a few points that I disagree with. I don't believe in the method of teaching something incorrectly to simplify it for a beginner, only to have to relearn it the correct way at a more advanced stage. A good example would be a statement to the effect of "never brake while turning" made in my MSF class. I realize this is aimed at street riding, and you'll rarely have to do this on the street, but wouldn't it be nice to at least know what trail braking is so when I go into a corner too hot one day I'll be equipped to handle it? Maybe this particular issue wasn't an MSF problem but an instructor problem, I don't know, but there were several things looking back that were very poorly taught in my class.

I would like to see civilians have to pass the IPTM course to get a license. That would weed out most of the people on the street right now, but at least the ones that are left would be able to handle a bike to some degree of competency. The MSF is a good idea that is poorly executed.

Tmall · 01-15-2009, 02:32 PM

It's a basic coursed designed for non riders to get started. If you expected to be a racer when you were done, you should have taken a race school. They do have those out there.

The Awesome · 01-15-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall

It's a basic coursed designed for non riders to get started.

Yes it is, and it does a poor job of that in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmall

If you expected to be a racer when you were done, you should have taken a race school. They do have those out there.

Who's talking about racing?

RACER X · 01-15-2009, 02:57 PM

well i guess the ol addage

you can't please all the people all the time

would be perfect.

pickle.of.doom · 01-15-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

Well, there's nothing wrong with it except it's painfully stupid, but at least I know that's his MO now.

Excuse me if I don't jump on your bandwagon there line-boy, I think for myself.

01-15-2009, 02:57 PM	#59
RACER X AMA Supersport Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond, Tx Moto: '10 Tuono Factory Posts: 4,569	well i guess the ol addage you can't please all the people all the time would be perfect. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ 2014 GROM! 181cc of FURY 2010 Aprilia Tuono Factory - SOLD 2009 SFV Gladius - SOLD 2008 Hayabusa - SOLD.

01-15-2009, 02:32 PM	#57
Tmall Aspiring Rapper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Halifax, NS Moto: '12 CB1000R Posts: 3,569	It's a basic coursed designed for non riders to get started. If you expected to be a racer when you were done, you should have taken a race school. They do have those out there.